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Peter Empson
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2019/05/16 21:52:29 (permalink)

Refresh time!

 
In case there's any interest, I thought I'd put up some random jottings about getting my car back on the road.
 
I won't go into the details, but for reasons well outside my control, I had to mothball the car.
 
Knowing I would never willingly sell the car it has sat in a garage for several years, even suffering the indignity of being trailered when I moved.
 
It is all Paul's fault you know, he purchased a turntable from me recently and mentioned having his engine rebuilt, and that rekindled my thoughts about getting it running again. That's ultimately proved to be one of the most expensive turntables I've ever sold...
 
One last journey by trailer and the car was delivered to EMC earlier this month. I'm sure they wont mind me posting the update pictures (assuming I can get images uploaded here).
 
I can't quite put my finger on it, but something's missing...
 
 
post edited by Peter Empson - 2019/05/16 22:02:34

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1987 944 Lux (ish)
Peter Empson
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/16 22:01:46 (permalink)
This engine had had problems for a long time (well before it was SC'd, before anyone points to that). It had low oil pressure and substantial usage. My solution was to run much thicker oil and this worked, delaying a rebuild for many miles and track days.
 
The last time I drove the car properly (at Silverstone I think) I had curious issues which to my mind pointed to a weeping headgasket. I knew that I had run the top end dry (a mis communication with the garage I was using meant they used too thin an oil which had been burnt off within minutes during one session) and that it was not at all happy...

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1987 944 Lux (ish)
Peter Empson
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/16 22:04:45 (permalink)
If you're squeamish look away now...
 
Om nom nom.
 

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1987 944 Lux (ish)
Peter Empson
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/16 22:15:33 (permalink)
It's cylinder #3, the headgasket was ok apparently. You can see it better in the picture below.
 
The list to do everything I want is near endless, so I'm going to have to split it into stages.
 
So the initial tasks are the engine rebuild and a new (uprated) clutch. The engine mounts will be done too. Some mods will be made to improve cooling (always been an issue on track), and hopefully the few bits of rust that have reappeared will be dealt with (mainly around one rear wheel arch, but you can see some under the headlights). The front spoiler is also in need of repair, EMC has a rather steep driveway, and I'm a wazzock 
 
Some new seats are going in as the drivers one had a crack in it and was looking rather threadbare, I got a good deal on some kevlar Cobra Suzuka buckets, not sure they suit me as well as the Imolas which I really liked, but time will tell.
 
There are other things involving spacers, brakes, mapping and so on, but I'll perhaps cover those another time, and more, if there's any interest?
post edited by Peter Empson - 2019/05/16 22:18:08

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1987 944 Lux (ish)
944Turbo
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/16 22:33:58 (permalink)
Peter Empson
It's cylinder #3, the headgasket was ok apparently. You can see it better in the picture below.
 
The list to do everything I want is near endless, so I'm going to have to split it into stages.
 
So the initial tasks are the engine rebuild and a new (uprated) clutch. The engine mounts will be done too. Some mods will be made to improve cooling (always been an issue on track), and hopefully the few bits of rust that have reappeared will be dealt with (mainly around one rear wheel arch, but you can see some under the headlights). The front spoiler is also in need of repair, EMC has a rather steep driveway, and I'm a wazzock 
 
Some new seats are going in as the drivers one had a crack in it and was looking rather threadbare, I got a good deal on some kevlar Cobra Suzuka buckets, not sure they suit me as well as the Imolas which I really liked, but time will tell.
 
There are other things involving spacers, brakes, mapping and so on, but I'll perhaps cover those another time, and more, if there's any interest?


Lots of interest keep the updates coming! 
Tony

944T Coupe - personalised ;) but needing work
944T Cab - Standard
Dan944t
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/17 03:09:32 (permalink)
Hi Peter,
 
deffinately lots of intetest if you have the time to keep writing thays that’s for sure! 
 
I have a 944 lux myself 1986 aswell as my current turbo and the lux has been sat in a garage nearly 18 years becuase of low oil preasure issue that at the time, drove me insane!!! As I tried what I thought was everything.....updated the oil preasure relief valve, oil cooler seals , preasurized the oil pump, backed it up pouring into the oil filter neck whilst turning over thinking it could be a air lock issue for months on end. Changed the oil preasure sender , changed for different grade oils this went on and on for far too long and caused me allot of stress as I was also allot younger back then and had allot of peer preasure that I should have bought a normal car (I bought it when I was 17 that’s how much I loved the 944 ) 
 
i must add that my preavious engine snapped the cambelt becuage of me being young and nyeeve and the trader that sold it to me needing shooting telling me they had just done a belt change and service!😡  very loooong and interesting story maybe for another time when I can get time to write more or when maybe we may cross paths in real life at an event as it’s way too hard to write it all. 
 
Anyhow i ended up buying a bottom end off the bay becuase a company was advertisimg a bottom end fully rebuilt ready to go and they were a racing firm (Sussex performance ) so I thought it was a win win.
 
i rebuilt all the top end and mated it with this bottom end And fit it myself on the floor in my mother in-laws garage to her and his discust!  
 
Well there was numerace issues from get go, i noticed the balance shafts were very stiff so I messeged them and they said maybe the bearings are too tight that we fitted and need to be sanded down a bit!!😳😳 so not knowing all that I know now I just chassed my tail and spent money apon money with that engine to no real end. 
 
in the end I got so frustrated and upset that I left it it that garage and there it sits ever since and I bought myself a turbo which i have now and has been a fantastic car from day 1. 
 
Now after all all these years of ownership /research/understanding and working on them and just finishing a totall rebuild on my turbo , I feel 400% more in control and knowledgeable than I did when I was struggling with my poor lux back in those days. Me and my wife now nearly split over me persevering with that car and that’s no joke very testing times for me back then as my passion for it was imence and I never give up, but boy did it kill my fiances I could have bought 3 good ones believe me the amount I spent. 
 
I now know which I would suggest to you could be your issue? that when I revisit that car and resurrect it ( which let me tell you is for me going to be very very enjoyable and weird ) 
 
I would rebuild the entire engine from scratch I would think now that the piston ring gaps and bore tolerances are way out and loose creating low compression and oil is probably being sucked past the rings from the sump , also the same would go for the big ends and bearing tolerances on the crank/piston rods where I would bet my house! that the tolerances are way out of spec and not tight enough and there allowing not enough oil preasure between the two and hence liw oil preasure. Mine in the end would cut out if you didn’t keep up the revs to pump the oil round, the oil preasure would be so low that it would drop to 0 under idling. I even changed and rebuilt the pump aswell as changing the crush irons retorquing the crank bolt, changing the washer/ bolt ect ect 
 
i think your tolerances are out and allowing the preasure to drop unless you have a cracked or leaking  pickup tube also but that still doesn’t explain the oily bores but the rings/bore tolerences would in my opinion
 
well after that I’m actually about to have a shower and start my 4 hour + journey to Wayne! It’s now 3:07am the 4month old has not let me sleep all night hence me writing this long message to you at this ridiculous time in the morning!
 
keep us updated mate and hope my similar experience has helped a bit of what may be happening to yours. That’s my understanding of it now anyway. 
 
Atb
Daniel 😉
 
 
 
 
post edited by Dan944t - 2019/05/17 03:13:11
Peter Empson
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/17 08:32:57 (permalink)
Best of luck today, Daniel, do let us know how you get on.
 
EMC are doing a rebuild similar to their race car engines which are obviously very well tried and tested - they've got so much experience with these cars that I've gone with whatever they've suggested. The brief spec is:
 
Steel linered block, steel I section con rods, JE pistons at 104mm bore, all new bearings and seals, competition head gasket, valves and seats and cylinder head faced, new cam chain and pads, new water pump, timing belts and tension rollers, rebuilt oil pump.

1987 944 Lux (ish)
Waylander
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/17 09:02:02 (permalink)
And a chair to sit on when Kevin gives you the bill............................................

1992 Cobalt Blue 968 Coupe
924Srr27l
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/17 10:16:32 (permalink)
Peter Empson
The last time I drove the car properly (at Silverstone I think) I had curious issues which to my mind pointed to a weeping headgasket. I knew that I had run the top end dry (a mis communication with the garage I was using meant they used too thin an oil which had been burnt off within minutes during one session) and that it was not at all happy...



 
Hi, out of interest what was the thin Oil used Fully Synth? and 10W40? and the thicker stuff Semi snyth 20W50?
Do you know why it was Running too HOT on track? Do you run the 944T OE external Oil cooler or an aftermarket?,
also do you have an Oil temp gauge too?
 

 
edh
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/17 12:25:20 (permalink)
Great to see you are getting the car back into shape - look forward to waving as you fly past me on trackdays 
 
Must call in to the shop again sometime  (I have this nagging feeling about a turntable / amplifier service at some point) but maybe I should just feed my vinyl habit 

'90 944S2 track car https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=685088
'99 996 C2, '16 M135i, '13 VW Up!
ex : '00 986S, '90 944 Turbo, '88 924S, '86 924S
Diver944
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/17 12:59:54 (permalink)
Plenty of interest here Peter and nice to see the car has arrived at EMC. I am still so happy with the engine they built for me two years ago now.
 
Should I buy the new speakers I want from a different hi-fi specialist if it ultimately costs you several thousand more 
 
 

Paul Smith - Northants 1990 944 S2 Panther Black
blade7
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/17 18:52:44 (permalink)
Peter Empson
Best of luck today, Daniel, do let us know how you get on.
 
EMC are doing a rebuild similar to their race car engines which are obviously very well tried and tested - they've got so much experience with these cars that I've gone with whatever they've suggested. The brief spec is:
 
Steel linered block, steel I section con rods, JE pistons at 104mm bore, all new bearings and seals, competition head gasket, valves and seats and cylinder head faced, new cam chain and pads, new water pump, timing belts and tension rollers, rebuilt oil pump.




Do the EMC liners obstruct the windage ports?
Peter Empson
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/17 21:44:46 (permalink)
I've managed to sell a few things to make this happen (a Kidney, that sort of thing ) and there should hopefully be some wiggle room for the inevitable problems encountered after such an extended lay up, Kevin's quote was very reasonable considering everything that gets done.
 
Ed, you're of course always very welcome, all purchases of records and hifi equipment can go directly towards the 944 benevolent fund...
 
Paul, don't worry, we can sell you speakers from the top end of our range that will definitely put you back into credit 
 
I don't know about the windage ports, if I remember I will ask next time I visit.

1987 944 Lux (ish)
Eldavo
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/17 21:48:51 (permalink)
Only a true 944 legend would post at 9:44 

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Peter Empson
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/18 08:40:35 (permalink)
I really wish that was intentional now, if I didn't have to go to work I'd wait just over an hour to post this

1987 944 Lux (ish)
924Srr27l
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/18 10:12:36 (permalink)
924Srr27l
Peter Empson
The last time I drove the car properly (at Silverstone I think) I had curious issues which to my mind pointed to a weeping headgasket. I knew that I had run the top end dry (a mis communication with the garage I was using meant they used too thin an oil which had been burnt off within minutes during one session) and that it was not at all happy...



 
Hi, out of interest what was the thin Oil used Fully Synth? and 10W40? and the thicker stuff Semi snyth 20W50?
Do you know why it was Running too HOT on track? Do you run the 944T OE external Oil cooler or an aftermarket?,
also do you have an Oil temp gauge too?
 

 




Diver944
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/18 12:05:34 (permalink)
Peter, I forgot to ask. Is Kevin building it to a slightly lower compression to allow for safer extra boost from your Supercharger?  
 

Paul Smith - Northants 1990 944 S2 Panther Black
Peter Empson
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/19 11:45:23 (permalink)
They are going to be running a little less compression as an extra safety margin, they found that the last head gasket was already quite thick at 1.4mm (how much is to do with the previous skimming I'm not sure). I don't want to lose too much low down torque, so prefer a higher compression and I'm not that fussed with running more boost in the near future as it's not really lacking in perceived power. Never say never though, and maybe a couple more psi wouldn't hurt
 
Oil cooler is/was an S2 one, but it's location was not perhaps optimal, I'm leaving the cooling in EMCs capable hands as they assure me that their cooling mods are likely to be sufficient. If not I have plenty of options still available to me that could be retro fitted quite easily.

1987 944 Lux (ish)
Dan944t
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/19 12:34:37 (permalink)
This sounds good! 
let  us know how it turns out.
 
ive been up to EMC and there nice guys extremely busy 👍
944 man
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Re: Refresh time! 2019/05/26 18:47:01 (permalink)
Dan944t
This sounds good! 
let  us know how it turns out.
 
ive been up to EMC and there nice guys extremely busy 👍




Very pleased to see this Pete.

Simon
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1989 944 2.7
1985 944 It's alive!
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