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IMS Failure rate

997Mike

997Mike

New member
As most of you know by now I have come out of a classic and into a 997c2 3.6 which I love

However this IMS issue keeps raising its head ,mine is a March 2006 model and according to the engine number it has the larger IMS bearing fitted
Is there anyone in PCGB who has a 3.6 997 2006 onwards that's had problems with the IMS bearing or am I worrying about nothing

Thanks
Mike
 
I run a Porsche specialists and we have about 900 customers, of which a strong proportion of these will have m96 engines that have either the single or dual race IMS bearings.

If you believe everything you read on the internet, I should be getting phone calls every week and every month ... but I don’t. In fact in the last 5 years I might have averaged 1 call every 12-18 months. So few, it’s hard to gauge.

From this I would say the chance of any IMS problem is small.

I hope this analysis puts your mind at ease.

kr Lee Jones
 
I have also recently purchased a 997 3.6 and like you I was worried about the IMS Bearing issue (and bore scoring). Mine also has the later bigger bearing and although our cars aren't immune to IMSB failure it seems to be a lot less likely especially in normal road use - which is just as well as the engine has to be opened to replace the bearing so preventative maintenance is virtually impossible . I'm going to change the oil and filter regularily and carefully check for any metallic debris each time. Not a lot can be done on the bore scoring issue beyond careful warm up and not running wide throttle openings at low revs. Lower coolant thermostat is something I will do and perhaps Nanotech oil in future. Having done my best for the engine I am going to just enjoy the car and not worry about failures any more !!
 
Hi Mike,
When looking at what to get last year (996.2 C4S or Gen 1 1997 C4S) I was advised by the Indy that I bought from, that they no longer sold Gen 1 997 'S' models, due to the fail rates, they were coming across. They'd happily sell, and still do Gen 1, non S models as they feel the engines are more solid and less likely to have issues.

HTH

Mark
 
I seem to recall that the 3.4 (eg Cayman S, as I have) and the 3.8 (as in the "S" models") were supposedly more prone to scoring (prone being a relative word.....anecdotal numbers vary b/w 3-5% of production), and as others say above, the IMS "issue" was regarded as being no worse than (likely small than) this.
 
I too bought a 2005 C2S with 18k miles on it in March this year. I have read as much as could on the IMS and bore scoring issues that can blight these cars. My car has only been serviced by Porsche at the correct intervals and the next one is due in Feb 2019, I intend to change the oil prior to this and get the oil checked for any sign of bearing breakdown. I will also talk to an independent on the use of a LTT as an option. Apart from this I guess all I can really do is let the car warm up gently and for enough time for the oil to reach temperature and hope I am not in the % of bore scored cars. To be honest I have now done 1.5k in the car and see no signs of any oil usage nor and ticking noises. Once I can afford it I will possibly get a gen 2 or even a turbo but for now will enjoy it for what it is.
 
If it hasn't happened it probably will not (as long as its not a low mileage car (say 40 k and less)
HOWEVER about the time yours was made Porsche moved the bearing into the engine I presume so it was immersed permanently
If it is this engine you have to remove the engine and strip it
If its the old external one the Gearbox needs dropping and its then quite a reasonable job to replace it
THere are a number of high quality units on the market

It would appear that if you use Shell Helix 5 30 or 40 can help as can regular oil changes

Failure rate was reasonably low try not to worry about it
 
Earlier this year I needed to have the engine and box out (2004 C4S) so I decided to renew the clutch and change the IMS for an oil fed one. The car had covered 35,000 for what its worth the old bearing was in perfect condition (now a paperweight).
By the way Autofarm did the work and were excellent.

Andy
 
My 2005 Carrera 3.6 had a new engine at 30,000 miles from Porsche.
Replacement engine has done 34,000 miles.
Finger permanently crossed.
 
H_A

Your replacement engine will almost certainly have the bigger non serviceable IMS bearing so you are reasonably safe from failure.
 
Anyway just an update on my concerns and I thank you all for your comments and advice

I have decided to have it all checked out just for piece of mind as I intend to keep the car for many years to come and also for a future buyer

My engine number tells me it has the larger bearing fitted (as its a 2006) but I need to be sure

It goes in to a local Porsche specialist on Dec 4th , I will keep you posted with piccys they are removing the outer seal to allow the oil to feed the bearing better , I am told that as its a sealed bearing

Mike
 
Remove the outer seal? That doesn't make any sense to me. The bearing is sealed and packed with grease. As I understand it the failures are caused by the seal/s partially failing and allowing the grease to be washed out but not enough oil in to maintain lubrication. With no inner seal the bearing could be theoretically splashed lubricated. Removing the outer seal seems to offer the worst "solution" to me. I would suggest for the later engines if it's not broke leave it alone.
 
Hi Geoff this makes good reading

IMS bearing failure rates at the time of the Eisen class action lawsuit for the single row bearing used from 2000-2005 was 8%[4]. The earlier dual row and later non-serviceable bearing has a reported failure rate of 1%, however as vehicles age, it is expected failure rates could exceed 10%. To reduce the chance of an IMS bearing failure, it can be replaced as a service item using one of several technologies including but not limited to ceramic hybrid ball bearings or cylindrical roller bearings. These have a finite life and require replacement at frequent intervals that vary depending on the technology employed. A plain bearing conversion is available that backdates the engine to an oil fed IMS bearing like a Mezger engine. With replacement engines or vehicles built in or after model year 2006 through 2008, removal of the grease seal is considered good practice pioneered by Hartech in the UK. Without a grease seal present, the IMS is submerged in engine oil, providing adequate lubrication

[h2]MY 2006 to MY 2008 cars[edit][/h2]Cars made in 2006 to 2008 model years (potentially anything manufactured from 1 January 2005 to the end of the 997 model life) received an unserviceable bearing type. For these cars it is recommended to remove the bearing seal to allow oil to lubricate the bearing

Mike
 
My understanding is the same as Mike's. The later bigger unservicable bearing is less likely to suffer failure in road use but if you change the clutch then best practice it seems is to remove the outer seal to allow engine oil to lubricate the bearing and then forget about it. Don't overlook the fact that as mileage and age builds up on any engine it is likely to eventually need some element of reconditioning even if its just for oil leaks - it's just the difficulty of getting the earlier M9697 engines to this point without major expense thats the problem.
 
997Mike said:
As most of you know by now I have come out of a classic and into a 997c2 3.6 which I love

However this IMS issue keeps raising its head ,mine is a March 2006 model and according to the engine number it has the larger IMS bearing fitted
Is there anyone in PCGB who has a 3.6 997 2006 onwards that's had problems with the IMS bearing or am I worrying about nothing

Thanks
Mike
Click to expand...
Hi, I am looking to purchase a 996 C4S that has full Porsche service history & already had the IMS replaced recently. Does anybody know whether the IMS is likely to fail again and need replacing a second time?
 
Ajaym92 said:
Hi, I am looking to purchase a 996 C4S that has full Porsche service history & already had the IMS replaced recently. Does anybody know whether the IMS is likely to fail again and need replacing a second time?

##Hi Ajay, as you've probably gathered from the above, IMS fail rates in reality are very low....assuming the IMS work you mention was done properly, I would suggest the odds of anything going wrong are EXTREMELY low!
Click to expand...
 
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