Who said Turbos hold their value?!?

[Guest]

After owning many a fine sports car over many years, I decided to bow out of the performance car marque by taking myself to the pinnacle of motoring (in my opinion) and I forked out around 84 grand for a 10 month old 996 Turbo in January. My initial thought was to keep the car for between 6 - 12 months. Having done my research (Glass's guide) etc, I budgeted on deprecation being somewhere around 10 grand over 1 year. However, now that I am coming to sell my car, I am getting trade bids of around 73 grand. That equates to a monthly loss of around 3.5k. []

According to almost every magazine I have read, a 911 turbo will return between 65 and 70 percent of it's value after 3 years. On a 90 grand motor that averages out to around 10 grand per year or less than 1000 month.

I bought nearly new in order to ensure that I do not take a big hit at resale. Looks like I may have made the wrong decision.

Any other owners out there who have had similar experience???

P.S. anyone want to by my car, 03/03 silver/black manual with all trimmings??? []

 

[Ian Gilmour]

John,

Perhaps your question should be who says Porsches hold their value!

Although not in the same league as a turbo, I bought a 4 month old Boxster S for £41k a little over a year ago. I hadn't planned to change it for some time but managed to secure an order on a Boxster 550 in February. Bearing in mind that the Boxster is one of the slowest depreciating cars available, allegedly, I was staggered to recieve a trade-in deal of £31k making my annual loss £10k - that's the amount you'd expected to lose on a car that cost twice the price.

Someone, somewhere is making a lot of money on these cars but it sure ain't the likes of us!

 

[graham harvey]

If these are trade in prices then i'm not surprised. The Dealers have to make their profit - what are the current prices for both the Turbo and Boxster on the private market ? Every car that I have owned I have always bought from a Dealership but always sold privately. I agree it's more hassle but you recoup more of your hard earned back !

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: graham harvey

If these are trade in prices then i'm not surprised. The Dealers have to make their profit - what are the current prices for both the Turbo and Boxster on the private market ? Every car that I have owned I have always bought from a Dealership but always sold privately. I agree it's more hassle but you recoup more of your hard earned back !

Absolutely, having had to buy at retail prices, John is now being offered trade, well probably below trade actually as I presume not buying something else from the dealers. They know you can go try to sell privately but assume that a: you are loaded and can afford the kick in the nether regions and b: that you will be otherwise looking for a private buyer with three-bedroomed terrace money to spend on a car ourside of the dealer network. You could put it in the Sunday Times motoring bit as that is where most people I know with prestige stuff go to sell - it will probably be a dealer that comes and buys it but they should pay better money out of the paper than on the forecourt.

The earlier in it's life it is the faster it will drop in value, so as it gets older the depreciation curve starts to flatten out somewhat, as it bottoms out the better stuff then starts to go up, most of the much older stuff is now starting to curve upwards (the cars I mean, steady)

Good luck - let us know how you get on, it's always very interesting. Have you actually found out what your car books at - did any dealers show you the book John?

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your comments. I must admit, I did take an earlier kick in the nether region last summer when I flogged my 6 month old M3 SMG Cab (you would have thought I would have learnt my lesson by now)! I bought it new and lost around 10k on that deal. I have thought about advertising in the Times and I think I will definitely give it a crack. Nothing to lose really except for 50 sheets []. I think the book value is around 75 although I will pop into Menzies on my way home and check. My main concerns with selling privately is the risk factor and test pilots who have no intention of buying. I heard a story from my neighbour about a guy who was selling his Boxster privately. Basically, as the owner got out of the drivers seat to let the buyer have a drive, the buyer side slipped into the drivers seat and took off!!!

 

[Rotorhead]

Depreciation - the great black hole that consumes an estimated £150 billion per annum.

In the early years the average annual depreciation on a Porsche is c.15% pa, which is actually much less than most cars. However, on a £90,000 car, it is still a painful £1000 per month.

Why do people tand for it? Presumably because their desire to change is more important than the financial loss. Some people turn a blind eye and are only interested in the regular monthly finance repayment. If that remains much the same they don't notice the true cost.

Obviously people with certain older Porsches are laughing at this a 911RS, 911CS, 964RS, 993RS, and many other desirable models, may even be appreciating slightly.

It's no consolation that the situation won't get any better. Porsche has ambitious production plans for its forthcoming models, which could exceed 100,000 units p.a. And, whilst we continue to go into the showrooms and order new cars market forces will dictate the prices of used cars.

Changing cars every six months is a very extravagant hobby.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: oliver

Obviously people with certain older Porsches are laughing at this a 911RS, 911CS, 964RS, 993RS, and many other desirable models, may even be appreciating slightly.

964RS generally up about 10% a year over last 4 years that's all models LHD/RHD looking at rising for years to come, very scarce cars at the moment from private sellers, what do you replace it with? Normally you buy the new model! Porsche just don't make 'em like they use to......[]

 

[Guest]

Plenty of rip off stories out there John, but ultimately your call on who drives it/buys it.

I was always taught to drive the customer first, then go somewhere with less traffic, turn the car off, swap seats with the passenger and give them the keys to start the car when I was back in my seat, that way if the car is nicked it is hijacked rather than taken with the keys in and therefore you are insured.

Our policy was to let no-one drive until you had seen their driving licence with their current address on it and a valid insurance cert showing they were comprehensively insured to drive a car of similar value, there is some credibility in a buyer who will agree to these terms, you could always keep their car keys at your house while you let them drive, assuming you know the car they came in is definitely theirs!

It's a load of hassle but when it could get you 80 grand in a private sale and ensure you still have the car after the test drive it has to be done! Times definitely the place to start, Top Marques is full of L plate 5 series, useless IMHO

good luck with it mate

JG

 

[Rotorhead]

If I was selling a 996 turbo, or any other prestige car, I wouldn't let anyone drive it.

I would present it in the best possible condition and price it competitively. I would assume that any one wanting to buy such a car knew exactly what they were getting and would have driven one beforehand. Obviously the buyer would want to know that the car was perfect and I would arrange for it to be inspected at my local OPC.

If he wanted to know how it drove, I'd give him a selection of past Road Tests. But test drives - no way.

 

[Guest]

I hear what you're saying but it's all about bums on seats mate! The trade teaches you that the test drive is where you sell the car, all you can do leading up to that point is create the desire - paint the picture. It has been shown that, as long as you have done your work, i.e. qualified the buyers properly and got them talking about the right car for their needs, settled any worries and shown them that they can afford it, when they then test drive it they will psychologically place themselves in the car as the owner. The vast majority of potential buyers cannot say no after a quality test drive as the climax of a sales presentation (as long as you know how to close them there and then).

Having said all that, I bought my own 911 with no test drive and transferred the money to a totally unknown private seller in another country 2 days before we were due to turn up. It's all down to what you feel comfortable with and how much confidence you have in your contingency plans!

 

[Guest]

All very interesting. I understand all points of view as I am in fact a professional salesperson. Out of interest John, what were your contingency plans when you bought the 911 you mention as it sounds like there couldn't have been any? Either way, I admire your gutsy approach!

 

[911_turbo]

On a positive note, I bought my 993TT about 9mths ago and they still seem to be fetching the same money today. I had counted on some depreciation by now but have been pleasantly surprised!

 

[Guest]

The car had a 6-month old Peter Morgan report and seemed genuine enough. I spoke to both the previous owner who explained the history and why he had sold it, and to Peter also who thought it was a good one. You can't say fairer than that so was sold on the car.

As regards the seller, I did some detective work and all roads led to the same place. The seller had a UK bank account so we used that to receive funds & just to be sure I had a binding contract of sale drawn up and had it signed and faxed back to me (fax is legally admissable) so was okay with that too, though nerves were still jangling a bit when I pressed the 'send' button from my current account!

Worked out beautifully in the end though and we had a great trip down to south of France to bring it home. Good luck with the sale John, I am sure it will all come together in the end. The car sounds fabulous, which is the most important thing when you get right down to it.

 

[Guest]

Goes without saying, but don't forget to give it a good valet before any prospective viewers arrive.

 

[911_turbo]

ORIGINAL: johntraynor

I have thought about advertising in the Times and I think I will definitely give it a crack. Nothing to lose really except for 50 sheets [].

John, thanks for your e-mail just now - I've sent you a reply.

Re your comment above, where you work you should have access to a Bloomberg terminal. You can advertise it for free on Bloomberg and the audience is mostly investment bankers so it might be worth a try. My colleague sold his Boxster there a couple of weeks ago. Just type "Cars" and then press <Go> to get onto the page.

 

[Guest]

Good news!!! I checked my purchase invoice last night and I "only" paid 82K for the car []. I have now decided to keep my car until June. One OPC trader who I spoke to recommended selling no later than June as the 997 will date the current 996 - even though the turbo 997 is some years off. He suggested it might take from June until the 997 comes out (October time I think) to sell my car off the forecourt. 4-5 months to shift my car - hmmmm I think I can smell some sales bullsh*t!

Any thoughts on the optimum time to sell???

 

[ClubSport 911]

as it bottoms out the better stuff then starts to go up, most of the much older stuff is now starting to curve upwards (the cars I mean, steady)

Agreed. I get to see the prices made by 911 Club Sports and it is fascinating. Appreciation ? - I was surprised how much it has worked for me ! []

Sorry to hear about your ££ misfortune, but frankly, it's a brill car. Why not just hang on, until it comes up the other side of the bathtub.. ?

 

[Guest]

I love Barry's Bloomberg idea John, sounds good. You should go for that and/or the Times.

I don't fully accept what the trader told you about 997 dating Turbos as they will be hard to come by for some time and yours is well below list price at the minute. Though the new car will probably impact on trade values for normally aspirated cars it will not hit the private market too hard for the same reason - they are well off the list, and as you say Turbo is a long way off, but the big money boys might be happy to wait so don't hang about, some potential buyers will have no idea that a new car is coming and you shouldn't mention it to them either!

When is the best time to sell/how long is a piece of string...the best time to sell is when you are ready to do a deal - that might be now or in June, just don't expect September or December to be good for used cars other than people wagens as the school run pipcks up pace. The off-season is bad news for sporty stuff so get it gone during the Summer/May-June, but if you are in the mood to sell it then there's no time like the present.

 

[Guest]

The latest is that my car broke down on Saturday. I got up at the crack of dawn to play golf and the damn thing wouldn't start. Porsche assistance came out after 1 1/2 hours and got me started. However, after playing golf I got into my car and guess what??? Damn thing wouldn't start again. You would not believe the humiliation of getting my car loaded onto a transporter. One ever so helpful bystander said to me "you should've bought an expensive car mate" and I could have quite easily smacked him one []. Nevertheless, it just goes to prove that no car is infallible. Interestingly, the tow guy said to me "I should be telling you this but I pick up a lot of these cars"!!! So much for German engineering!!!

I see this as a sign to sell my car...

 

[Rotorhead]

Bad luck.

I'm sure that the reason many Porsches etc are recovered is because the complex systems limit the extent to which they can be diagnosed and repaired by the roadside. 9 times out of 10 they would rather it went to the main dealer.

Or, maybe she has a 'heart' and this was her reaction to your talk of selling her.