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Which one?

trev260764

New member
Hi guys! This is my first post... I have decided to opt for a 944 and can't believe how cheap they are! Getting the right one is the issue though. I reckon a 3ltr S2 is the answer as I believe these were the last models - but is a 2.5 turbo a good option? I can't seem to find any with air-con or remote door locking. Were these not available back then? Any pointers would be apreciated. Ta!!
 
S2 versus Turbo is a never-ending argument around here!

In standard form, they both enjoy a similar turn of speed, with the S2 having a steady torque curve whereas the Turbo has that big kick in the pants as the boost hits. It's down to personal preference really.

One important point though is that you can easily modify a Turbo. Once you start to take that route you can say goodbye to your wallet but hello to the sort of performance an S2 will never achieve.

There are plenty of Turbos out there with central locking and air-con. I think air-con was standard on the later Turbos. Remote locking is rarer. I think it's always an aftermarket modification.
 
ORIGINAL: trev260764

Hi guys! This is my first post... I have decided to opt for a 944 and can't believe how cheap they are!

To buy yes, to run, well it depends how much genuine love you want to give. But unless you're a DIY'er even specialist servicing and maintenence on these cars isn't all that cheap.

Air con is on most turbo's I think but few S2's, invariably though it won't work anyway and will cost £'s to put right.

Remote locking was optional and some I think early on but it's a very easy thing to add on an S2/Turbo.

IMHO - get a turbo, even a bad one will probably blow your socks off and if the bills scare you away then at least you'll have had a blast!
 
Cheers guys. I have previously had 4 Impreza's, including a 300 bhp STi so am aware of 5.2 secs to 60 etc! Whilst this was fun I never really saw the purchase of a 944 being a replacement for the Scooby - more of a totally different car, if that makes sense... I guess the purchase of the 944 will be as a second car and servicing / reliability / cost etc will be more important.

Air conditioning was a problem then eh?

Cheers again "" Trev
 
ALL Turbos have air-con (except a select few where it has been deleted). It's not especially troublesome, but it's circa 20 years old so things have started to corrode and as with any period a/c system it used R12 gas which is now slightly less desirable than a knife-wielding paedophile at a playgroup. When you convert to R134a you can get loads of issues. It's possible some of the "compatability" gases are less hard to get working.

I had an RB5 - biggest steaming pile of 4 wheeled excrement I ever made the mistake of buying I'm afraid. The 944 isn't the best handling car on the planet by any means, but it's several leagues ahead of the Impreza, and it has pretty good steering feel and weight as opposed to something akin to a weak PlayStation force-feedback wheel. You can also rest your eyes on a Porsche without fear of denting the bodywork. The 4 banger doesn't sound great, but you don't have to mask the fact it sounds like a cheap tractor with a straight-through domestic soil-pipe (though if you disconnect one of the leads you can simulate a misfire which sounds a lot like a Subaru with a drainpipe if you miss it).

Welcome along by the way; I'm not having a pop at you, you probably haven't experienced a good car to put the Scoobies into perspective yet. There are a couple of people who have them here, but they are workhorses and they have no fanboys on here if that tells you something
 
Talk about stirring the hornets nest, eh?

You are, of course, entitled to your opinions. I will need to think carefully what I say in future...

Cheers for your help (?)
 
Both are great cars - as others have said if you just want to buy a '44 and leave it standard then the S2 is probably the way to go being sensible as in standard form the Turbo is very laggy and you may find it frustrating compared with more modern performance cars. That said relatively cheap mods makes a considerable difference to power and the way they drive and more expensive ones ever more so, it really can be a slippery slope once you start.

Turbo as mentioned already has a higher level of spec as standard and also went through quite a bit of "under the skin" development during its production run so there's quite some difference between early and late ones.

And yes the 944 community is a very friendly one, if a bit forthright at times. [;)]
 
alk about stirring the hornets nest, eh?

So, Fen got in first on the "Scooby" point.....[&o]

I'm on my second Legacy as the family dog-mobile. IMHO there is no better everyday car than a Subaru, be it Forester, Legacy or the "I look like a Focus but drive like a rally car" Impreza. I love them, and am considering the diesel Legacy as the next change. 100K, no problem. 200k, still carrying a farmer to work and he's grinning all the way.

Fen, you don't need to reply. Argument over. [;)]

Trev, you really need to get into a few cars and see which you prefer. It's true that the S2 is a reliable all-round dream of a car, and don't forget that there are some really good Ss around for even less. It's also true that the Turbo is great when it's properly set up. There are cars on this forum that will give a GT3RS a good run for it's money for 1/4 of the price. Of course, that's not a standard Turbo and this is where you need to decide how deep your pockets are.

Can I throw in a 3rd suggestion? Try a well-sorted Lux. There's a limit to how fast you can drive between speed cameras, and they will happily cruise at over 100mph if you are in a country that permits it. I'd rather spend my money on improving my driving through training and getting a car properly set up. Choose a car that's, on paper at least, slower, but way cheaper, and spend the balance on decent suspension, tyres etc. You'll enjoy a thorough 4-wheel alignment more than a chipped and thrashed shed.
 
They will all have central locking as standard and you can hook that up to any number of after market alarm systems and immobilisers. Very, very few S2's have aircon as standard and it is expensive to retrofit.

As above if you want to leave it standard then it's S2 all the way.

Be wary of cheap cars, there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche and you can easily spend twice what you paid for a cheap one in sorting it out. S2's and Turbo's cost £40k back in the late eighties and some of the parts can be expensive when they do eventually wear out. The good news is once replaced they should then give another few decades of fun [:)]
 
Never driven an Impreza but have driven loads of the current hot hatch brigade and the 944 feels pretty agricultural to drive in comparison. It's noisier and feels less civilised (though more civilised than a 911 of the same year), however you get so so much communicative feel and feedback - so much more than even a Civic Type R, which out of all the hot hatches i've driven feels the most taught and driver-orientated. It took me quite some getting used to, especially with it being my first rear wheel drive car, and with the unsophisticated way the boost kicks in I drove the car pretty gingerly for the first 12 - 18 months. In fact only now after 5 yrs of ownership am I starting to get some courage and it is clear to me the car has so much to give - much much more than my driving skills can deliver.

After stepping out of a relatively care-free handling car like an Impreza it will be back to day 1 at school when you get into a 944. However the rewards are great. You know that when you push it through a bend and get out the other end unscathed then it is down to one thing and one thing only - you. There is no traction control, differential trickery, fancy suspension. I find that much prospect more exhilarating than driving modern stuff fast as you know there is a whole host of modern technology working in the background flattering you and lulling you into a false sense of security. And the feel of the car is very nice. Yes modern stuff has caught up but a 944 is still a superbly handling car and you can feel it.

The only thing you need to decide is how much umph you want. As Paul has suggested a well sorted Lux is probably the best bang for your buck, but you probalby wont be impressed by it's out and out grunt and straight line performance after your impreza. An S2 will give you a bit more, but still not a near Impreza levels and N/A cars are not very tunable so whatever performance you have is basically your lot. A good turbo will give you good out of the box grunt and is ealisly tunable. However one thing you should bake in is with these cars are getting on a bit and alot will need refreshed suspension (even Porsche suspension doesn't last forever) and a bit of cash spending on them to get them upto what they were when they rolled off the production line. If you buy a good one for £4k you'll probably need to spend another £4k on it to get it to it's best (assuming the PO hasn't done all that work).

Your best bet is to take a few for a test drive and see if they will float your boat.
 
Hi Trev, Welcome to the forum and I hope to 944 ownership. Nothing much more to add, other than Fen is one of the friendlier bunch on here [;)]. If you want to get your own back, just get yourself one in guards red [:D]
 
ORIGINAL: sawood12

and with the unsophisticated way the boost kicks in I drove the car pretty gingerly for the first 12 - 18 months.


Not just me then Scott.

I was begining to think there was something wrong with me easing off when the boost kicks in ... after 12 months I have only just found it boosts correctly at 1.8 and holds it previously I had chickened out at 1.2 and eased off My car is still a standard 220 for now at least anyway [;)].

I had a Lux for over 3 years and bought the Turbo last year this was always my intention, however as has previously mentioned the lux is an ok car and I enjoyed the years I had with mine but so pleased with the Turbo.

wil
 
I quite like our Impreza estate, so much so that as they are very reasonable currently we may have anew one soonish - how does 12K for a year old car sound? Having said that its the wife's rather than mine....
Welcome Trev - don't buy a cheap one - mind you they are all cheap at present!
Look for one with lots of receipts recently - noone cares about a wheel bearing 10 years ago (unless it is still the same one!)
They are not cheap to look after properly in comparison with their asking price but then they don't suffer too much depriciation either.
Best of luck with your search and if you wanted to see a decent S that could be yours if you were lucky drop me a line....
 
Mmm... Gettin some good help here (especially that I should not have bought any Scoobies...). I wanna spend about £3500 - there seems to be loads about, even S2's - so will brobably opt for one of those. These they will be the newest and be more likely to be lower milage. I'll keep en eye on servicing records to have more confidence. Looking forward to upgrading from my current car - Ford KA 1.3 'R' reg... Anyone know any dealers in the York area whe get regulay 944's in, or do I keep my eye on eBay and Auto Trader?
 
£3.5k may be a little close for a really nice S2, but they do seem to appear from time to time and you're looking at the right time of year. Personaly I'd stick with private sellers and not dealers. If they're making a decent profit on a £3.5k S2 then chances are it's not that great... It's not as if there's going to be a worthwhile warranty and the things that go wrong will not be noticed by the average car dealer. Find a cherished one (Pistonheads seems a good source for these) and get it checked by a specialist before buying.
 
Usually plenty for sale at Pistonheads site - couple of S2's there for around £3500 (high mileage examples but that needn't be a problem) but mainly S's and Lux's. Oh and an '87 Turbo [;)].

Service history (especially recent) is of course important but probably even more so are when the belts were last changed ( I believe this holds true for S2s as much as any other variant).

Turbos and S2's were around at the same time so just as "new" as one another.

Would think Autotrader would be a pretty good source of cars too and there are often folk on here selling theirs, am sure some will say hello presently [;)].
 
I didn't mean any offence with the Subaru comments other than "if you think an Impreza is good you have a lot to look forward to". I certainly have no desire to perpetuate an argument about them, save to say "how does 12k for a year old car sound?" Like a recipe for losing 4k a year in depreciation over the next 2 years.

Back to the 944 and I think your budget is on the cusp. Many of us have said before that you should keep money back when you buy a 944. In my experience about 1,500 notes is realistic to get the mechanicals into shape. Unfortunately the single Achilles heel specifi to the S2 (shared with the other 16v model; the S) is the dual camshaft design and that will very likely swallow a grand or so if it needs attention. In my personal experience of 2 cars it has been needed twice, and in the 5 years since I last bought an S2 it can only have got more likely.

Basically you might find a decent S2 for your money (and be careful as you could find loads of less than decent ones), but it might need significant money spent on it. On the other hand you might struggle to find a decent Turbo at all at that price. Note that you can get a Turbo from '86 and an S2 from '89, so while they ran concurrently to '91 the Turbo was around for a lot longer. An early Turbo is a 220bhp car with the same chassis as an S2 (basically) whereas from '89 the Turbo had 250bhp, bigger brakes, LSD, stiffer suspension etc. All Turbos had air-con and most had sports seats (most later ones with leather) whereas most S2s had cloth and no air-con. Both of mine had sports seats, but they are less common than in Turbos also.

All that said however I wouldn't recommend a Turbo to leave standard and I wouldn't recommend an S2 for anything other than leaving standard (except suspension upgrades), as they are very different to drive. What will you do with the car? The answer to that defines which of the two you should look for.

I've never even driven a Lux, but people who have "upgraded" say the lighter car is sweeter to drive, though clearly it doesn't have more than average power these days. Also they are abundantly available in your price range and it would have to be a very, very special one indeed to break that ceiling. They are also less likely to have expensive sill corrosion (because they don't have the same plastic muck-trap along the bottom as the S2 and Turbo).

It's difficult to recommend a course of action really. You might find a good S2 that you can just use at that money, but you could end up with something that while not a money-pit long term might need a bit of money spent on it to get it right. Of course you could also end up with a money-pit good and proper. You could on the other hand get a very nice Lux, though price doesn't always reflect quality and there are some nasty ones around also, but at least the budget stretches to the better cars. Lastly if you have any plans to make the car go faster then you really want a Turbo and you probably won't find a decent one for the money unless it's an early 220 car.

I'd echo the advice to steer clear of dealers because there just isn't the margin in a 3,500 Porsche for them unless the true value of the car is a couple of grand dog.
 
As a guide - I bought a £3500 S2 and have spent about that again in the first 6 months of ownership getting it to where it's at now (pretty much perfect). This was mainly on bodywork restoration & maintenance items such as belts, oil seals, brakes etc. However, I did buy it as a 'project', so was expecting to spend money on it.

HTH,
Robbo
 
Yep"”I'd always budget at least £1K for sorting bits and bobs after buying a 944 of any variety. Between adjusting things to your own taste and fixing/servicing wee niggly things that aren't quite all there "¦ you're almost guaranteed to spend that much, maybe even more.
 
I'd always budget at least £1K for sorting bits and bobs after buying a 944 of any variety

This will be at the top of the FAQ list when I get time to do it! In fact I'd say £1500 for a turbo or 16-valve unless you're really lucky. One unexpected bill for, say a clutch, H/G, decent repairs to usual corrosion can easily top £1k.

If you're looking at 16v then check the history for not only belt but tensioner etc. as well. Cams have been known to need replacing in worst cases. Don't forget that with seals, rollers and water pump a belt service can be a lot of money.

Not trying to put you off. Just that I hate seeing people join the forum with a new shiney Porsche, no budget left, asking whether a juddery clutch and oil in the water are going to be expensive to fix! [&o] Buy a good one and they are great but £3.5k is low for an S2 so be doubly fussy!
 

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