When MOTs go bad

[noneil]

Oh no . . . ! I've got a couple of days to think it over as the old certificate's about to run out. I guess it'll work out cheaper to get the work done than buying all the tools to do the job that I don't have (MIG, grinder, etc.) and doing the job myself. There is a worry though that as they get in there they'll find even more rot to dispatch of. Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Neil

 

[ukmastiff]

Very difficult to comment too much m8ee as you have said nothing about your car. Which model of 944 , year condition history , value etc. I do remember your posting re having engine troubles before , did you sort them ?

It's simple really you find out how much it will cost to repair and decide how much you love or feel you owe the car. Lots of folk will think you shouldn't give up on the car and no car should be scrapped but then they dont have to pay to get her repaired.

Best of luck

Mas

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Any thoughts?

See all the previous threads on corrosion. [&o]

Did you not know that it had problems? It's always better to catch rust earlier than the MOT-failure, but sadly most owners either just don't look for corrosion, or hope that it will go away on it's own.

A proper restoration on a 944 isn't a lot of money compared with pretty much any other classic car. But, you've got to accept that a proper job will cost money. You could perhaps bodge it for a few hundred, but that's a lot of money to spend on a short-term solution. The only way to get another 25 years or so out of the metal is to treat it like a restoration and get it done properly. This assumes two things; the car is in otherwise good condition and you're not going to be needing to spend the same again on a new engine and re-trimmed interior, and that you see the car as a long-term prospect, so are prepared to invest in it.

I'm sure plenty of people will say that you could find a sound car for less than the cost of restoring yours. Possibly, but I just don't see cars now that haven't either had good money spent on them, or are needing good money spending on them. I think we need to look at the cars a different way now; they are one of the best cars ever made, and there is no car from the same period/class that is cheaper to run. Accept that the odd four-figure bill will be part of ownership, but that it's money well spent. The alternative is scrapping every 944 that shows the normal signs of being an older car. [8|]

 

[Lowtimer]

I agree with every word Paul has just said, and also with what UK Mas says about it being your choice.

Cars are property, not children, and if a given owner does not want to make an investment into a car for the long term that's an entirely personal matter. The scrappage rate is high on these cars over the last couple of years, and will continue to be so over the next couple of years as this sort of issue comes up and people decide they can't justify spending the money. It's not an issue unique to Porsches - this is what happens to every make of mass-produced old car, which is why the roads are no longer populated by rear-drive Escorts, Capris and Sierras.

Against that, within a few years there will be three kinds of 944s. The majority will be in scrapyards. Of the surviving minority, there will be those that have had substantial restoration efforts, and those that need them. (There may also be a tiny handful of cars that have never corroded due to luck, excellent storage conditions and minimal use in poor weather, but really only a handful). I think most owners who reach the moment of truth will choose to scrap them and that's entirely their business.

The cars tend to change hands for very little money at the moment and (for now) it is possible that you might be able to pick up one that has had the necessary work done for less than it will cost to repair yours.

I'm one of those who is putting his money where his mouth is, and fortunate enough that I can afford to. I am going through an 18 month mechanical, structural and cosmetic restoration programme that by the end of the summer will see my car owing me multiples of what it would fetch in today's market. But it won't be for sale, so no-one else will be buying that one for a song. The amount of money it would take me to part with it is a lot more than anyone would be likely to offer. That suits me just fine because I intend to run it for 10 to 15 years.

A lot of people would say it's stupid to spend a lot of money on a relatively worthless old car, but all I can say to that is that it's going to be a sight cheaper to get the work done now, before the rot spreads, and while parts are readily available, than it will be in five years, never mind ten years. It's not about saying a car should never be scrapped - I am quite grateful that so many are being scrapped, as that process is creating availability of good and restorable spare parts at low prices.It's about securing the car I want to own and drive for the long term, and knowing exactly what has been done to it, and to what standards.

 

[noneil]

To be honest I knew there were some corrosion issues but I didn't think that it was as bad as this. The rest of the car is fine, good even; the interior's tidy and engine problems seem to be sorted. I know really I should bite the bullet and get the work done, I think I'm just prevaricating and hoping for some kind of silver bullet; the thought of a four figure bill does make my head a bit numb though.

Thanks for your input chaps, I need to get some prices - any suggestions of decent indies in Leicester would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Neil

 

[Lowtimer]

It's not really an indie thing, it's a bodyshop thing, and a bodyshop that is genuinely good at sheet metal restoration work rather than (like a lot of modern bodyshops) being accident repair specialists.

Mine is being done here, in Stevenage.
http://www.daytonacoachworx.co.uk/contact.htm

The website doesn't get updated much but they have done a lot of 944s and 928s and have a good reputation for these cars.

Fat Albert of this parish had his done by a bodyshop that the Peterborough indy, TWG Motorsport, uses. I don;t know who the actual bodyshop is. He was happy with what they did though I don;t think his car required as much work as yours does.

 

[ukmastiff]

I know Daytona are craftsmen and I know you're going to say good work doesn't come cheap but please be prepared for a teeny weeny shock if they quote you for your new sills and spraying.

When they quoted me for a respray on a 944 , I nearly had a heart attack.


Lowtimer you are obviously doing your car proud and obviously not short of a few bob at the moment []

 

[Lowtimer]

UKM:

Whenever I have a plumber or electrician or similar in to do something to the house, I make sure the car is well hidden. Otherwise the prices go up: people think I have a lot of money, because I have a Porsche.
I really ought to put up a sign explaining that I have no money, because I have a Porsche. Or in some cases, as with Daytona, that in a few months I will have no money, because I have a Porsche.

The aeroplane version is:
Q: "How much does it cost to fly?"
A: "Every penny."

Same thing really.

Neil:

If you want opinions of body shops in East Mids I think it would be worth you putting a query up in the PCGB Region 8 forum here:
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tt.asp?forumid=27

I would also put up a thread on Pistonheads. Emphasize that you need quality metalwork as well as someone good with a spraygun.

This Pistonheads thread may give you some leads too:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=817686&mid=0

 

[deafasapost]

..............dont forget to budget £1200 a side for sills, allegedly.........

on a serious note tho, it depends if A- you have the funds to repair, and B- if you love the car that you accept that now and again it'll need a few expensive bits to get it upto to scratch.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

.dont forget to budget £1200 a side for sills, allegedly

Behave! [][]

Seriously, I'd not think it unusual, or unreasonable, to be spending £5K, £10K or even more on restoring a 25-year-old Porsche. What would you spend on an E-type that you bought cheaply needing bodywork restoring, or on a rusty MG? The sad thing it that a 944 is seen as a car worth a couple of thousand, therefore not worth spending money on. Yet, it's arguably a better car than the equivalent 911. [&o]

 

[deafasapost]

i agree. i think they are fantastic cars anyway, and for the cash they go for, they are one of motorings bargains re bang for buck!! A hell of a lot of car for the money.

i was looking at mine closely tonight, and i do think that when i have the spare cash, i'm going to throw some money at it in the name of a respray and a few things like the roof replacing etc. its not bad just the usual stone chips and old roof, but i'd love it to be perfect, near as concourse as i can get it. its a bit like a house imo, ok, you buy the house and materially it goes up in value eventually, BUT in the meantime you spend a hell of a lot of money just running it with utility bills and general maintenance etc and a lot more on cosmetics from a simple low cost emulsion for the walls to new carpets, curtains, bedding the lot. do you really need that 45 quid a roll wallpaper or that 70 quid a square meter carpet or the bespoke roman blind? will it make your house more expensive on the open market, or will it make it more saleable? you do it because you want to do it, because thats what you like and thats what you choose. we do things like that everyday because its what we want, its what makes us happy. why do it with a house, but not with an old car??? just because its not worth much in ££££££ doesnt mean its not worth doing.

 

[scam75]

Well, as already said it's your call. If it's a keeper get it sorted properly, if not add it to the 944 bits and bobs doner collection.

Impressed with the goings on with your car Lowtimer. Probably a bit surprised that I've come across someone who's spent (spending []) even more than I have in the pursuit of 944 happiness! Good man! Maybe we can meet up in 10 or 15 years to compare our antique but roadworthy beasts!

Stuart

 

[SEE YA]

Shop around get a few quotes make your mind up then.

 

[Fat Albert]

As Lowtimer mentioned TWG use a good bodyshop, mine wasn't too bad but they said that they have never charged anyone more than £800 to sort the sills out.(Mine were £600)
The finish on mine (from the outside) looks very good my only complaint is that it took a week longer than they said, Mark at TWG complaining that "he is a fastidious bu**er and won't give it back until it is right" which is actually a good thing!

And agree with LT on the flying costs too!

 

[Hilux]

First - look at average 2nd hand values for a rust free example of your car in good nick that needs only servicing and maintenance in the future

Second - I suggest you get a quote for the work to be done properly and consider the overall end result.

If you then consider it is not viable, you are not too emotionally attached and are not considering long term ownership then personally I`d buy another rust free original car. Despite what is said they are out there at very reasonable money as 2nd hand Boxster prices are driving them down (so much so I might re-enter the 944T fold [] )

 

[Melv]

ORIGINAL: noneil

- any suggestions of decent indies in Leicester would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Neil

Chris -GCR

http://www.gcrcentral.co.uk/

Do mention my name!

 

[Northern924]

Well I guess someone has to play devils advocate here lol

As many have said here, price up getting it done properly and if thats going to be more than you feel that car is worth then you could always just have it patched up for another year and spend that time deciding what to do next, that way it'll be a lot less expensive and will save you the hassle of trying to break it, scrapman will be wanting it for pennies, steel price isn't as high as it was a couple of years ago

 

[noneil]

Bump!

Well I thought I'd post a little update on this as I've finally made it through the MOT. I got a quote from GCR (TWG was too faraway for me to drive to MOT having expired) and Chris was really helpful; however he came back with a quote for £800 - £1000 which is frankly beyond my budget and he didn't feel was financially viable given the likely value of my car.

So I went back to the original garage and got them to patch up the problem for a pretty reasonable £175 and they took a load of photos of the work in progress for me. I know that this could be a false economy and the job will have to be done sooner than if a 'proper' job had been done but money is tight and I like the car too much to write it off as scrap.

I'm looking forward to getting in it today and getting some more miles on the clock.

Neil