WHAT NEXT....

[Kongsodoken]

I have over the past 2 years I have spent loads of time and money improving my 944 Turbo I am now happy with the interior body and paint and it is mechanicaly sound......

Trim and body I know want I'm doing but engines and suspension I have not got a clue to help me out here

Next I what to change the suspension (don't ask why) everyone seems to rate KW but will I really notice the difference the car is not tracked ? I like the look and price of the ground control units at £700 v £1500 what would you do!

now the biggy
I want the engine bay to look new so I am going to fit a new engine I would like a bit more power, I am considering buying a new engine from Broadfoot racing in the states purely because I like to look and price, other people have quoted me 15K in the uk to build fit a 3L ........does fitting a non standard engine reduce the cars value?......should I keep it stock?

do I fit a aftermarket engine managment system for reliabilty and drivability ...does this increase/decrease the cars value

my car is NOT fully original but I think the mods (interior and bonnet) are simpathetic to car so do not detract from its appeal I have known extactly what I wanted to acheive with the car upto this point ...now I'm lost[&o]

what would you do

http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=685/CA=219

http://www.broadfootracing.com/engines.htm

 

[sulzeruk]

Build the engine yourself. They are quite a simple engine to work on and there is considerable knowledge within the forum to help you. It is always much more satisfying doing it yourself and costs much less than paying someone else to do it.
The KW stuff is very good on or off road.
Alasdair

 

[Copperman05]

Re kwv3 you would certainly be optimising the cars handling and enable it to utilise any engine mods you have planned. On the road having more grip, less pitch and roll and better high speed stability are all good things. Cheaper systems are available but if you can afford it now you might regret having not fitted it in the future.

In my view it's probably the single most worthwhile mod available for these cars.

Edd

 

[Hairyarse]

KW-v3 and do the engine yourself, unless yours is terminal you could tidy it up and get a fair bit of extra power without too much time/money. Whilst the engines from the US looks very nice, I guess it aint going to be cheap!

 

[CarreraRSR]

As for a US engine, don't forget to factor in crating and shipping, shipping insurance and the dreaded VAT and import duty when it lands on UK shores. No chance of slipping that into your hand luggage and making a dash through the green channel at customs!!

Also if something goes wrong, you can't exactly deliver back to the vendor for checking over with much ease!!

 

[sulzeruk]

I have several short and long block turbo engines here. I will also be coming down to pick 2 motorbikes up in the next month down near London!
Alasdair

 

[edh]

Have a good think about your "more power" objectives first.

It might just be that your current setup is a bit tired - an old wastegate won't hold boost well & will be slow to spool. Do you know if the car is a 220 or 250 turbo? Has it had any mods already? Ensure there are no boost leaks, plugs/leads/dizzy cap are good etc.. Is the compression good & oil usage low? If it is then you've probably got a reasonably good starting point already.

For road driving, 300hp/300+ lbft is plenty. Easy and relatively cheap to get too. It makes a massive difference to the performance. Nothing more than chips, dual port wastegate & a few other mods. Promax Level 2 kit would be a reasonable example that is plug & play. I would have thought you could get it or something similar supplied & fitted for under £1500. Above that level it starts to get expensive. See if you can get a drive of some modified cars before you go too far..

 

[Joss Walker]

The KW stuff is awesome, I can't recommend it highly enough for the difference it makes to the car whilst still retaining the character, and mine is a (flexible) cabriolet that I never take on the track either, although now it feels like I could!

Your car looks excellent now, but when you start talking about resale values then i think that you have probably killed your chances of getting your money back just with the detailing.

 

[sulzeruk]

Any engines over 100k will probably have worn rings. Stuarts (scam75) car used very little oil but the top rings on the car were about 0.35mm over their wear limit of 0.8mm for the end gap. Get a bog stock early 86 forged bottom end (bulletproof!), later 03 suffix head, 250 bhp turbo and a fresh rebuild and you will be good for 100,000 miles again. Careful building will easily see you with 250 bhp for the stock motor. DIY cost of probably about £1200 -£1500 including the engine if you shop around for parts. You can pick up the Promax kit stuff for not a great deal if you keep your eyes open.
The engines are simple to do if you know one end of a spanner from the other. Everything is large and accessible with the engine out and they fit straight on a stand with no buggering around.
Alasdair

 

[simkin911]

I get the impression that Ken isn't just looking for a "refreshed engine" but he also wants the NEW engine "look" to go with the rest of the car which appears exceptionally clean.

If it were me and I wanted the same look / effect but didn't have the time.... I'd obtain a decent spare engine and get someone to refresh and return it looking very very clean at the same time. I'd be concerned about buying a State side engine and having to contend with potential problems .....

Re suspension, you have spent so much and will probably spend so much more that a £600-£800 saving by not buying KW is likely to be insignificant at the end of the day.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

 

[Mike_Pollock]

I'd agree with Simkin, get a UK specialist to rebuild a spare engine, Jon Mitchell, Simon Pearce, Promax etc and when you do the swap you can "tidy up" (I've seen your other work!), the engine bay.

 

[Diver944]

I really love what you are doing with your car Ken, it looks truly awesome and it's already a real credit to you and your enthusiasm. To want an engine bay to match is obviously the next step but to purchase a new 3L engine at £15k to achieve this is starting to approach the realms of madness []

A 3 litre with matching bolt ons will give you a HUGE increase in power which will be very difficult to use in a day to day environment. For the 'new look' and a useful increase in power I would recommend having your current engine removed and then rebuilt to standard spec whilst having each external component cleaned properly by the builder. Simon Peckham did this to mine and whilst the internals were a much bigger engine the exterior looks identical to any other 2.5 just a whole lot cleaner

Al has already given you an idea of DIY costs but I bet if you doubled that and a bit more it could be done to your satisfaction by a pro. Add a Promax L2 kit and that would be all the useable power most of us will ever need.

Going non standard will not neccesarily reduce the cars value but you will certainly get no where near back the amount you spent on it when you come to sell. I spent over £15k on engine mods to my car but when it came to sell there were very few people who would even consider buying it and I got less than a third of that back when it was sold. However a car with a totally fresh rebuild on a standard engine might well get your money back in the long run []

 

[Kongsodoken]

Thanks for all the replies, I gues KW V3 gets the thumbs up

I doubt I could take on the engine build myself so yes Paul,Steve,Mike you have it bang on what I want is a "new" 944

My indi is recomending fitting steel liners, is this a good idea ?

Alasdair the forged bottom end are we talking about crank or is there more to it than that?

I visted the Midlands Tipec group tonight and their views were quite simular and I think I am coming around to the slightly modified stock engine....

I'm not so sure about the promax kit, bearing in mind I know next to nothing about engines......but the Rogue MAF and latest Vitesse MAF seem to offer a more modern aproach...not forgeting Barks 944 ECU mods

I'm sure most people have read the engine tune up thread on Renn list This is what I want with reliability and a bit of performance

 

[Kongsodoken]

does anyone have contact details for Simon peckham and Simon pearce

Thanks

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: Kongsodoken

Thanks for all the replies, I gues KW V3 gets the thumbs up

I doubt I could take on the engine build myself so yes Paul,Steve,Mike you have it bang on what I want is a "new" 944

My indi is recomending fitting steel liners, is this a good idea ?

Alasdair the forged bottom end are we talking about crank or is there more to it than that?

I visted the Midlands Tipec group tonight and their views were quite simular and I think I am coming around to the slightly modified stock engine....

I'm not so sure about the promax kit, bearing in mind I know next to nothing about engines......but the Rogue MAF and latest Vitesse MAF seem to offer a more modern aproach...not forgeting Barks 944 ECU mods

I'm sure most people have read the engine tune up thread on Renn list This is what I want with reliability and a bit of performance

Nothing wrong with wanting a new 944...

I would avoid steel liners, they are not as good as the standard Alusil bores, unless you are going for crazy power 500bhp+ were it would be advisable to fit steel closed deck liners I'd leave alone. You can't beat an all alloy engine for durability due to it's even heating properties.

The 86 block has all forged internals, the crank,rods and pistons were all forged were as the later engines have cast internals except the crank although some sources even have this as non forged ( I don't believe this myself)

Vitesse is without doubt the best MAF or MAP unit on the market, don't be fooled into any other make if you want the best from your engine, only thing better would be a stand alone EMS which is available for our cars if desired but not needed unless after serious power.

personally a stock 2.5 with the right mods is the best way to go, you can get very big power if you need it( my own car was 368bhp on a standard 2.5 block) but will not lose the majority of the feel to the car.

Pete

 

[edh]

Simon Peckham - 07774780277

He's a very nice chap & will give you good advice. One of his BB hybrid turbos would be an interesting option as well - giving you faster spool up from low revs. Your only problem is the options are almost endless when it comes to engine build, tune etc..

I've had a Vitesse MAF - and KWv3 and if I had to choose just one, would spend money on the latter every time. Vitesse is good, John is a very helpful chap, but the main benefit in my opinion was the ability to run with different turbos, boost levels etc.. without getting new chips each time. It's helpful if you're looking to progressively upgrade & improve the car. My impression is that you want to do this once & then leave it alone?

Tom barks approach is very interesting, and he's UK based. I don't think he has the turbo ECU ready, but it looks a good option. Again maybe for the keen DIYer, rather than fit & forget?

 

[os951]

I have heard that those Broadfoot engines are no longer available, don't know if that is true or not. Just find a decent spare engine and had it done in europe, just got a message from Steve and he mentioned about your project. I am in the middle of restoring two engines. One is for my friend's S2 cab to 951 cab project. This engine was bought from Steve, another one is my son's 951 engine he bought from Alasdair.
I would avoid steel liners. Most alusil blocks can be saved without over boring them. In my home town is the only company here in Finland which have a correct Sunnen machinery to accomplish this task. They have done several blocks for me. They did first 944 blocks back in 1984... I have used their services since 1978, so i know they can do quality job. Otherwise doing 944 engines are more or less cosmetic work when making they look like new again. I usually use a company located near my house re anodized all metal parts, bolts, nuts etc. to look like factory original

 

[barks944]

ORIGINAL: edh

Tom barks approach is very interesting, and he's UK based. I don't think he has the turbo ECU ready, but it looks a good option. Again maybe for the keen DIYer, rather than fit & forget?

My turbo is now running and will be going to Bob Watson Engineering for mapping and suspension work in the very near future. I am using a 3BAR MAP/IAT sensor mounted directly in the intake plenum for this system rather than a MAF type setup. The engine is lightly fettled all over with one of GPF's old turbos that came from the states, Speed Force Racing I believe.

https://picasaweb.google.com/102381013786850618724/951Intake?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKPdy9WctsK4oAE&feat=directlink

The MAF setups work well, but the reason they are using MAF not MAP like every standalone system on the market is to get the fuelling right without mapping. This means you can send your kit out all over the world and it should run fine. But that begs the question of how optimised the igntion map is for a given engine, its just someones best guess after all. Mapping can be expensive, however once you have a good base map to work from and after you have built a realtionship with a good tuner that cost comes down significantly. I hooked up a wideband AFR sensor to my ECU the other day so I am going to have some fun with that too . Just my 2 pence worth, I will report back on how we get on with the mapping!

 

[944 man]

This is a bit random Tom, but I think that a selection of safe base maps would be a significant inclusion for me. Beyond cost its the thought of a new installation which is a blank page which puts me off.

 

[944 man]

To put that into perspective: if I was driving an Impreza, then I can think of three people that Id happily take it to with a new boxed A'PEXi PowerFC, but a 944 is a far less common model and theres very little knowledge/experience out there to find.

The thought of a new, boxed and totally blank replacement ECU would be quite daunting.