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Water pump - update

J

JeffHunt

New member
Two weeks on from my last post, and I have still not started putting things back together. Everything is off waiting for me to sort out a broken w/p bolt, yes the last one I undid, and the one at the bottom of the pump nearest the oil pump flange. The head just twisted off without using much force.
I am left with a long stud which won't come out of the block. I have tried heating with a butane torch, but I'm wary of putting too much heat on it as the oil pump gasket must be very close, and I expect would be damaged by too much heat. Any suggestions? The problem seems to be rust. My current idea is to drill oput the pump flange to a bigger hole, and use a sleeve nut to tighten down on the old bolt, the thread is good as I have been able to run two nuts ointo it to use as a locknut.

My thanks to the people who replied to my first post, the crank bolt was finally undone with a cordless impact driver and some heat from a butane torch. I wish I hadn't started so quick after readingEldavos reply, but on balance i think having better access is, well, better.

Summary of the job so far? Long, not complicated, lots of time watching the rain. I'm sure putting it back together is going to be easier
 
Hi Jeff,

Certainly the 'right' thing to do is file the face of the stud flat, centre punch as close as possible to the centre and drill out the stud with a cobalt bit, starting small and working up to the tap size. Sounds like an unimaginable nightmare with the engine in... someone here just did it with the engine out and posted pictures (PSH?).

If it was me I would seek professional help, or go with the sleeve nut idea. The worst that could happen is that the stud snaps again flush with the block when you torque up the sleeve nut... and then you're back to drilling it out again.

Rob
 
grind two flats with an angle grinder on the broken bolt you can then get a mole wrench to grip to undo, the heat generated with the grinder also helps
 
If you have a long stud, and have been able to get two nuts on it then I'd persevere with penetrating oil, rust shock/freeze sprays etc and a socket on a long breaker bar.

Personally, I'd only resort to the drilling he stud out if it shears off close to the face.

Other option would be to weld a decent nut on to the stud.

No matter what - not a good place to be! Commiserations!

 
Last time I did a water pump on my S2 it rained for the entire job, which was done on the road outside my house, and I did much of it lying on my back in the gutter in a stream of water. In November.

At least I didn't have any snapped-off bolts to contend with tho'. I like Bert's idea - grinding flats and heating (and vibrating) the bolt a bit. Put some plus gas in there as well - that stuff seems to work wonders for me.


Oli.
 
Ahhh Jeff, you have my sympathies this is a bitch of a job with the engine out , with the engine still in the car it can only be harder. Drill and tapping is the last resort, try all other methods first although if your studs are as bad as mine were I doubt that they will work. Out of the four studs that had seized on my car I only managed to remove one without drilling and tapping. The problem is that they are only 6mm and weakend due to age and rust. I wouldn't try welding a nut on as this only weakens the stud further as I discovered. One of the problems here is the design that let's the lower studs break into the waterway and therefore rust more easily, IMHO Porsche should have foreseen this and used stainless studs but hey it's a bit late now. I would persevere with penetrating oil and molgrips. Better still would be to use a suitable stud extrator , my son had offered me the use of his but they were at work and I was in a hurry, I won't be making that mistake again lol. Believe me when I say I tried all of the suggestings given by others in this thread before drilling and doubt any will work, the studs are too small, weak and rusted in to remove any material from them to get a better purchase. Since the stud has already sheared when removing the nut I'd bet that yours is nearly as bad as mine although you only have 1 seized so it may be better than it seems. Try again remembering to work the stud both ways if you do get any movement, if not and it snaps then you only have drilling left to you. If this is the case and you have room, once you have centre punched the stud I'd drill a small hole with say a 2mm bit but only for a shallow depth. Next replace the pump held in position with good studs or bolts and do as I did for removing my broken alternator stud, I only wish I'd thought of this when I did my water pump studs as it would have made life a lot easier, you'll find details in my 400bhp engine build thread. A word of warning if drilling, more so if doing it with the engine still in the car, be sure to use a method to restrict the drill from going to deep (iirc around 15-20mm from the block face) as the next stop is No.1 cylinder.

Good luck

Pete
 
Thanks Guys.

I think I will carry on with the penetrating oil etc first, then the sleeve nut idea, then the more drastic options.

Given tha way the bolt head just turned off I suspect that any heavy turning efforts will just snap off the remaining part.

Plus Gas! I haven't seen that stuff for years.
 
I have the type of stud extractor that tightens up on the stud with a cam action & is used with a ratchet but your stud may break again--one suggestion is to use a large copper type soldering iron ,get it really hot in a gas flame & keep applying it to the stud -it might be worth initially tightening the stud a little if it will move & working it to & fro whilst using liberal amounts of plusgas type spray-I tend to use the teflon stuff-G58-I think-in a red & black aerosol can.Could post the extractor to you if it helps.
 

ORIGINAL: GPF

If you have a long stud, and have been able to get two nuts on it then I'd persevere with penetrating oil, rust shock/freeze sprays etc and a socket on a long breaker bar.

Personally, I'd only resort to the drilling he stud out if it shears off close to the face.

Other option would be to weld a decent nut on to the stud.

No matter what - not a good place to be! Commiserations!
Click to expand...
I'd try this approach also - with one addition - after heating and soaking thoroughly with penetrating oil - I would put two nuts on the end to protect the thread and give it a sharp blow dead straight on the end to "loosen" corrosion.
 
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