Valuation advice please

[rav]

Hi All - My quest for a good 944 turbo continues.
Ive seen this car advertised on car and classic webiste. http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C50461/

Its a nice looking car - I have spoken to the owner and he tells me that he is not technical and doesnt know a whole lot about it. He tells me that there is rust on the wheel arches from stone chips but nothing on the sills.
Its a full SE spec including M030, 220 LSD and high bolstered sports interior. 109k miles - Panther black with linen interior, 4 owners.
Current owner has owned car since 1999.
Questions are:

• Belts were last done in November 2004 (about 5 k miles ago) - Am i right to say that Porsche recomends that these should be changed every 60k miles or 5 years whichever is first?
• Are the wrong wheels on the car? These look like D90's and not turbo SE alloys?
• There is no record of the clutch every being replaced/changed. How long would these last?
• If the car is on the original M030 Koni shocks, these would need recomissioning now? How much would this cost?
• How much should i allow for the correction of some minor rust on the leading edges of the wheelarches?

The owner has marketed the car at £6500, I have been using the JZ Machtech website to get an idea of how much a Specialist garage charge. http://www.jzmachtech.com/shells/service_index.php?porsche=944&model=944%20Turbo&engine=2.5&year=1990

If the car needs a belt replacement and 12k service - minimum i would need to get done then JZ Machtech would charge £1k for this.

How would you suggest i approach this? I guess without actually seeing the car, i wouldnt know if the shocks are goen, or if it needs brakes etc?
Im wondering how much i could barter him down to?

Any help appreciated.

 

[TTM]

You're right about the belts.
The wheels are the right ones for a 90 (or 91) car.
Clutch and shock wear depends on driver care and how the car has been used.

This is in my opinion quite decently priced for a 90 that apparently hasn't been molested and has relatively low mileage.

 

[xenon]

I thought all turbos had forged D90s?

 

[rav]

I was expecting it to have this type of wheel:

but instead it seems to have standard D90 wheels.

 

[xenon]

^^ yes, that's what I thought - forged D90.

 

[TTM]

The forged wheels that look like the D90 are usually called Club Sports (CS) ; the D90 aren't.

 

[rav]

So are we saying that the wheels i have pictured above are optional equipment? or should they be fitted standard on a 1990 Turbo SE?

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: TTM
The wheels are the right ones for a 90 (or 91) car.

 

[DavidL]

Rav, Only the S cars had forged alloys. SE cars have D90s but they are both 7.5 and 9 and are a straight swop.
I did exactly that as I prefer the CS design but they are not original equipment. In a way its a shame as it means there is either one fewer S car or one without its correct wheels.

 

[DavidL]

ORIGINAL: rav

• Belts were last done in November 2004 (about 5 k miles ago) - Am i right to say that Porsche recomends that these should be changed every 60k miles or 5 years whichever is first?

They need doing - they will perish at that age. I think you should push the owner to get it sorted before you pay any money so if the belt goes snap the engine rebuild is his problem.

• Are the wrong wheels on the car? These look like D90's and not turbo SE alloys?

See other reply

• There is no record of the clutch every being replaced/changed. How long would these last?

140K and going but mine is a cup clutch if that makes a difference. 109 shouldn't be a problem but it does all depend on how its been driven

• If the car is on the original M030 Koni shocks, these would need recomissioning now? How much would this cost?

Fubared I would have thought, certainly incomparison with new ones. No idea on rebuild cost mind

• How much should i allow for the correction of some minor rust on the leading edges of the wheelarches?

Again I don't know exactly but nothing like a cill replacement. Certain companies (Club Autosport) do repair panels but I think they can need almost as much work as a bespoke panel to get them to fit. You may be lucky!

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Belts were last done in November 2004 (about 5 k miles ago) - Am i right to say that Porsche recomends that these should be changed every 60k miles or 5 years whichever is first?

4 years/48K miles at the outside, 3 years/36K would be playing safe. I would hesitate to start the engine until the belts were done, let the owner take the risk. He states that he's owned it for 9 years and had it fully maintained - he plainly is overdue with this big service for a reason!

JZ are very expensive, you can get a lot cheaper within 20 minutes of them at Promax or RPM. I'd certainly not imagine a lot of change from £1K because it'll most likely need a water pump as well as belts, and a full service.

If it's got rust on the wheelarches then it will have some rust in the sills. Look down the vents in the door posts and it might well only be a tiny amount (see Oli's recent picture of a good one) and put your mind at rest.

Ultimately, it could be a fantastic buy when you see it. Check history, if he has no records before he bought it ask why - what was the mileage in 1999 []? Unless the car you buy has had everything done you'll be spending something on it. If it needs some bodywork, a clutch soon, suspension re-furb AND a major service plus belts, it'll need to be a bit cheaper IMO. It will always be a desirable spec, so might be worth putting some money into.

 

[edh]

I think it's excellent value for a late turbo - they are by far the most desirable of the 944's and good ones should be worth close to £10k

...or am I just biased? []

TBH, I'd want around that for my car, and I wouldn't swap for that black one, even with 60k less on the clock (I don't think mileage is all that important)

If it's been properly maintained, then the owner shouldn't have skimped on relatively cheap stuff like belts - if these haven't been done, what else is there lurking?
Ask him when was the last time the gearbox oil was changed, or the fuel filter.... simple stuff but often ignored.

If you don't know enough to do a thorough assessment, get the car inspected. And assume you will be spending £1-2k on it anyway (as you probably would on almost any turbo apart from the exceptional ones)

 

[pauly]

It's been for sale for a long time, a city car too which always puts me off, get someone that really knows turbo's to have a good look at it if you are serious about it.

 

[wolfie308]

The photos look very familiar... I seem to remember this from at least 18 months ago being advertised on Auto Trader at the same price when I was being tempted by the lure of boost. The more I look at the background, the more I'm sure I'm right - it was then advertised at 103K

I know times are hard, but if it hasn't sold in that time, I think you need to ask yourself why.....a fair number of people would have looked at it and passed it by. That's too long for a 'proper' car, in one of the more popular colour combos at around the right price to be for sale IMHO []

 

[Frenchy]

All MO30 suspension cars came with forged alloys silverose or not those look like forged alloys from the pictures posted,nice looking car belts can bo done cheaper than 1k waterpump inc.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

belts can bo done cheaper than 1k waterpump inc.

Of course.

But, if you were buying a car that needed a 12000 mile service, belts, water pump and any other things that came to light, wouldn't it be safe to budget £1K? [8|]

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: Frenchy

All MO30 suspension cars came with forged alloys silverose or not those look like forged alloys from the pictures posted,nice looking car belts can bo done cheaper than 1k waterpump inc.

those are D90's

 

[Flick]

I had wondered why this car hadn't sold. Didn't contact the seller as I was already talking to Damon about his (now mine) when I saw this SE for sale. This thread explains why. Looks nice in the pictures though

Would somebody mind quickly educating me (I'm not all that on 944's) - how do you tell which cars are S's or SE's without seeing the V5 documents? I assume a 250ps car can be specced to S/SE spec?

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: Flick
how do you tell which cars are S's or SE's without seeing the V5 documents? I assume a 250ps car can be specced to S/SE spec?

What is S/SE spec?

 

[rcsalmons]

1988 Turbo S was first of the 250hp cars with forged wheels, M030, gbox oil cooler, a/c, 10 speaker system and no sunroof. SE was post 88 with similar spec but with cast D90's and sunroof.

Rich