Track mods

[pmc_3]

Hi guys, I recently bought an 82 944 Lux 2.5 after selling my bike. I've spent the past month tidying it up, replacing seats, bonnet, mainly interior bits. I'm planning on doing some trackdays in it, i used to do Karting, have done trackdays on the bike and Nurburgring earlier this year.

What mods would you recommend doing? brakes, suspension, wheels, strut braces etc will be done on a limited budget lol

my first plan of action is to go to Northampton motorsport and put the car on the rollers and see how healthy the engine is.

 

[Diver944]

The first thing is to make sure everything is working fully. How fresh are the pads and disks, change the brake fluid, make sure the callipers are working properly. If the suspension is still original it will be well past it's best and simply replacing with the original struts will really sharpen up the handling. In standard form these cars are more than up to the task of regular track use, so I would recommend getting plenty of days under your belt and proper tuition for yourself.

The first and most worthwile modification I would recommend is a second set of wheels with proper tack oriented tyres like Yokohama R888, Michelin Pilot Sport Cups and Kumho V70A. They will last a lot longer on track than a road tyre and give huge amounts of extra grip in the dry

 

[Peter Empson]

^I agree with wot Paul says^ []

I used to track my Lux simply with good pads (Porterfields), brake fluid (Castrol Response or SRF) and the thicker turbo anti roll bars. It was great fun even on fairly worn suspension, which I suppose shows the changes don't necessarily have to be too substantial, so if on a budget start there and see how it goes. Wet trackdays are brilliant (especially on Pirelli P6000's ) with the standard suspension, so best to make the most of these upcoming winter trackdays.

 

[pmc_3]

As you guys have said, i'm planning on doing a few trackdays with it as is. I was really wondering which parts of other models could be fitted to improve it at later date, the anti-roll bars and brakes bearing in mind its an early car

Thinking about doing Cadwell next month, done it a few times on the bike so I know my way round there

 

[Peter Empson]

Brake pads will be no problem, they're the same for all versions of the Lux. I believe this is also the case with the arb's but don't speak from experience.

I would strongly recommend doing the pads and fluid before a track day, the standard setup will not give much confidence or allow you to stay out for more than a couple of laps at a time as they will turn to mush and boil the fluid. Performance Friction or Porterfield pads are the ones to get (i.e carbon metallics), they're not particularly cheap (unless you buy the latter from the States as I do), but it's money very well spent if you're to enjoy your time on track.

The standard discs and calipers (when in good condition) are absolutely fine, there's no real need to upgrade to bigger brakes in my experience (unless running much wider/grippier tyres or a lot more power).

If you can, try to remove some weight from the car, taking out the spare wheel, boot carpet and rear seat back take only moments and is a good starting point.

 

[Hilux]

Hi guys, I recently bought an 82 944 Lux 2.5 after selling my bike. I've spent the past month tidying it up, replacing seats, bonnet, mainly interior bits. I'm planning on doing some trackdays in it, i used to do Karting, have done trackdays on the bike and Nurburgring earlier this year.

What mods would you recommend doing? brakes, suspension, wheels, strut braces etc will be done on a limited budget lol

my first plan of action is to go to Northampton motorsport and put the car on the rollers and see how healthy the engine is.

Believe it or not, once the car is ok go the first step is to go and get some driver tuition (I`m not joking or being rude either)

 

[RC18B 911 turbo]

I recommend KWV3 coil overs transformed the handling of my car a bit pricey though but well worth it.

I agree with everything everyone else says as well especially the driver tuition bit I really need some I think so I can get the most out of the car and whatever else I get.

 

[John Sims]

Brakes can be an issue on the track with 944's. Because they are so good at the beginning they encourage you to use them hard up to the point where they don't work very well any more.

Lux brakes aren't as good over sustained enthusiastic use as Turbo brakes which aren't as good as Big Blacks.

Having set fire to the brakes on my Lux and destroyed the brakes on my Turbo I have some insight - obviously I'm not very considerate with brakes.

Porsche brakes can be expensive to overhaul properly and it is often better/cheaper to replace them with new.

An 82 car has different hubs so isn't readily going to accept S2 or Turbo discs and callipers. You might want to look into changing the front suspension for a later car but this may acctually prove more expensive than buying a later car.

The best you can achieve cheaply will be new pads and a change to Castrol SRF fluid. SRF is outragiously expensive (£50/ltr) but it is the only fluid I haven't managed to boil.

 

[Neil Haughey]

After the brakes making sure the suspension geometry is right will make a big difference, unless of course the geometry is already good. These cars have such a good weight distribution and inherent stability that things like correct geometry and balanced tyre pressures can really make a car fly even on mega soft suspension.

 

[333pg333]

Prior to these mods, unless you've already done it, would be all your belts, hoses etc.

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

Lux brakes aren't as good over sustained enthusiastic use as Turbo brakes which aren't as good as Big Blacks.

Having set fire to the brakes on my Lux and destroyed the brakes on my Turbo I have some insight - obviously I'm not very considerate with brakes.

Without wishing to seem contrary [] I still maintain that the problem was the standard pads. Even before my car was lightened, on the Bedford GT track (which is a brake killer) I never had any fade or problems with the setup mentioned above (and being a novice at the time I'd wager I wasn't that easy on them). I once made the mistake and forgot to order more pads in advance so fitted some standard ones (still with the high temp brake fluid). That was a total waste of a day, I had chronic fade after a couple of laps (if that) and I'm sure I'd have experienced flaming pads if I hadn't done a whole 4 mile cool down lap...

To the same car I later fitted 250T calipers and actually preferred the feel of the original setup, and it didn't feel like it made any worthwhile difference to lap times (by this time the car was only running about 150bhp, and was about 100kg lighter so these factors would have helped, but front tyres were pretty grippy 225 Toyo's T-1R's and I use a lot of trail braking which I think puts more heat into the brakes).

So all I'm trying to say is don't assume that the brakes are an area requires a lot of money spent on them on an otherwise near standard Lux, in fact we even tried the car with Porterfields on the front only and surprisingly that worked rather well too.

 

[edh]

I think (hope) you'll be suprised how well a stock 944 works on a track, even with tired suspension I'd definitely recommend a good synthetic oil to keep the pressures up when it gets hot.

Cadwell is one of my favourite circuits, but it is narrow & tight in a car. It might be worth giving it a first outing somewhere like Elvington just in case there are any surprises - I'm thinking about going to Cadwell with Bookatrack on the 22nd Nov.

Even the OE Porsche pads are up to some limited track use (just don't try & stay out too long) - there are limited low cost options for better pads with the sliding calipers - EBC reds are available & work OK, even if I don't like them very much. Brakes are a great debating point & there's no definitive answer as it depends so much on your driving style. You're not going to be hauling the car down from huge speeds in a 160 bhp 944.

If you put sticky tyres on, you'll need better pads as they will get much hotter.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: Peter Empson

....Without wishing to seem contrary [] I still maintain that the problem was the standard pads. Even before my car was lightened, on the Bedford GT track (which is a brake killer) I never had any fade or problems with the setup mentioned above (and being a novice at the time I'd wager I wasn't that easy on them). ......

I'm not sure if a novice will be harder on brakes than a self confessed brake killer. Prior to tracking the 944 all my track experience was with a Westfield. That was so light that it would lock wheels before I could over drive the brakes.

I regret I haven't much modified my driving style for the 944 (You are either accelerating or braking - nothing else counts []) and the ABS on the Turbo tends to make me even more aggressive with the brakes - we now have two switches the acceleration switch and the brake switch []

Any brakes will last all day on the track if you don't punish them - my quest has been to try to achieve a set up that I can rely on no matter how hard I work them. It's not big and it's not clever but it gives me a big smile.......well it does until the brakes or tyres give up. These days the tyres give up first. [8|]

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: Peter Empson

in fact we even tried the car with Porterfields on the front only and surprisingly that worked rather well too.

I don't think I've ever worried too much about rear pads as the rear brakes don't work very hard - my turbo is still on standard rear pads, and PF97 fronts (although I have some rear pagid yellows I picked up cheap ready to go on next)

 

[944 man]

I have converted an early car fro track day use and I would advise the following:

Suspension: either new oem (as a minimum) or GAZ adjustable, with new (late type) bushes and perishable mountings. KW don't make anything for early cars. Later anti-roll bars will fit: in my opinion you should fit the thickest front part that you can find and then be prepared to experiment with differing thickness rear parts (Porsche struggled to make their minds up too and many different diameter parts were made). Old worn suspension simply can not hack it.
Brakes: new discs, new Pagid(OEM) pads (and NEVER EBC!), new hoses (ideally braided F&R) and new fluid as an absolute minimum. If you need more brakes then the easiest solution is to use later alloy Brembo callipers with adapters, which cost £80 - £100. You can fit later front hubs easily and cheaply (for bolt-on brake upgrades), but you'll lose your speedometer drive (race cars are frequently wide-tracked in this manner though...).
Trim: remove the cabin carpets, the hatch carpet and sound deadening mats, the door cards, the window regulators and motors, the rear seat back (the squab will provide a little sound insulation and it weighs next to nothing so some people leave them in) and the seats. Early seats don't weigh anything like as much as later electric parts, but there's still a good saving to be made if you fit one or two lightweight replacements.
Harnesses: if you choose (and they're not really required as a bucket seat will hold you in place), can be fitted using the early cars existing seatbelt mounting points. The rear seat lap belt mountings are ideal for the shoulder straps too and their angle will be relatively gentle (and always far better and safer than a silly harness bar, or a bar across the rear section of a cage too, for that matter).
Glass: the rear hatch weighs a lot, but you'll have to bite the bullet and pay for a thermoformed polycarbonate replacement. The side glasses are much more straightforward to replace: buy a piece of 1250mm x 1000mm 4mm polycarbonate sheet and make your own for about £31 (use a card template!).
No matter what colour your car is finished in, the cabin will look terrible after you've removed the carpets and sound deadening: I'd paint it white carefully, using the gloss paint that Series Land Rover and VW Bus owner enthuse about (google Jenolite and you'll find it).
.9mm aluminium sheet costs £25 for a 2500mm x 1250mm sheet. Use cardboard templates again and make a pair of door cards and a pair of footwell-linings. When the floors have been painted white and the linings fit perfectly, then I'd suggesting bedding them on expanding foam. It'll keep water out, it'll dull a lot of sound, it weighs little, but most importantly it will stop you from losing stuff underneath...
By now you'll have lost a lot of weight, but it'll all be off the back and the car will look like a Baja Bug (I ended up refitting the spare wheel to mine to try to redress the balance)! The only practical way to lose weight from the front of the car is by fitting GRP panels. A complete front end will cost about £600. I would certainly fit the bonnet: the rest is up to you. If you have original wings then there's a hefty saving to be made there too, because the sealer on them virtually doubles their weight.
Bigger wheels weight more: the ideal size for a 944 is 16", but the tyre selection available isn't fantastic. The lightest and best quality wheels that you'll ever come across are Fuchs, but you'll have to pay a strong price for them now. 7" and 8" with 225/50/16 and 245/45/16 are ideal, although the rear tyre size isn't nearly as well supported as it used to be.
Contrary to what some people will tell you, an experienced indy should be able to re-index your torsion bars in about three hours. However, if you drill a hole in line with the axle ahead of the rear wheelarch, you'll be able to access the torsion bar and re-index them yourself in about half an hour (or 15 minutes in a later car)...
Whilst they aren't compulsory; breather catch tanks, electrical cut outs and fire extinguishers all make good sense.

If you choose to only do one of the things that I have suggested, then it should be the suspension.

 

[944 man]

Im sure that I have forgotten to mention a lot, but one point that strikes me is that you should NEVER remove the heater and demister fan. Its commonly advised in threads on PH and SC and many others Im sure, buts its rubbish advice. The small amount of weight that you will save is offset by your reduced coolant capacity and your massively reduced cooling ability. Not only is the heater an invaluable reserve cooler but a car wont be roadworthy without it and whilst you can buy a Micky Mouse 12v blower to satisfy an MOT tester, the car will struggle massively as soon as the Summer has passed...

 

[lali]

ORIGINAL: 944 man

Harnesses: if you choose (and they're not really required as a bucket seat will hold you in place), can be fitted using the early cars existing seatbelt mounting points. The rear seat lap belt mountings are ideal for the shoulder straps too and their angle will be relatively gentle (and always far better and safer than a silly harness bar, or a bar across the rear section of a cage too, for that matter).
.

Quite possibly the worst advice i've ever read on this forum.

Depending on the bucket seat that you fit it can make your lap belt less use than a kick in the crown jewels ( I'm thinking the high sided type ). Before you start with the idea of passing the buckle fitting through the seat as well I'd suggest thinking about the amount of damage it's going to do to your leg in the even of a side impact.
And i'd love to see a bucket seat that would "hold you in place" and stop you headbutting the steering wheel in the event of an accident.

fitting your shoulder straps to the side mounts of the rear belts!! OH NO NO NO NO NO!!! Way too much angle and the quickest route to a crushed spine.

 

[edh]

Let's not get too carried away...there are plenty of people who just turn up at track days in their standard road cars (even Escort Estates ) I would suggest that the OP gets the car onto a track & sees how it goes before comitting to too many mods. We're not talking about racing, or building the fastest 944 track car, just getting something that is safe & enjoyable on a circuit. As far as the scope of the work goes, well it really depends...

Is the car going to be a road car that gets occasional track use, but still needs to be reasonably comfortable on the road? - or is it a more dedicated track car that needs earplugs to drive?
What does "limited budget" actually mean ? - as it can be very different for different people. Is it £1k or £5k?

I know EBC pads aren't widely recommended - and I don't particularly like them - but they worked for me fade-free on two 924S's & lasted very well, and are half the price of other trackday pads for the 944.

I agree with Lali about harness mounting points - and would also add that harnesses without a cage don't seem a good idea to me, and a full cage in a road car isn't my favourite idea....
A half cage & harnesses is probably a decent option. If you go to the Palmersport days, they are quite happy to send you out in all sorts of machinery with bucket seats & 3 point belts.

 

[944 man]

Lali, I have no interest at all in arguing with you, but I refute both of your points.

Firstly: Porsche adopted this very method with the series production 968 CS and it works perfectly well.

Secondly the strap angle would be approximately 45 degrees. Belts fitted in this manner will definitely pass scrutiny in a race car. The Blue Book (p156 s46) warns against positioning the straps vertically with the mounting immediately behind the driver.

I have seen that your car has mountings welded to the leading edge of the load deck. As an aside, Kev Eacock told me that your vehicle would have had the straps mounted in the very position that I have advocated, had you not intended to use a HANS device.

With regards to harnesses without a rollcage: I agree fully. It is quite dangerous and in the event of an accident you are likely to suffer a serious injury. But then, a rigidly mounted fixed back seat is far from safe without a rollcage, a harness simply makes it more so. Harness, seat and rollcage all go together: only the OP can decide whether the lower seating position will give him adequate protection for the bars in the even of an on-road accident.

 

[944 man]

ORIGINAL: lali
And i'd love to see a bucket seat that would "hold you in place" and stop you headbutting the steering wheel in the event of an accident..

One further point: I am (obviously) talking about lateral location, as opposed to restraint in the event of an accident.