Standard, Koni or Bilstein?

[evoboy69]

My shocks are shot on my S2 so I'm looking to replace them all round. I know the KW3 kit is the best option but I can't justify the cost on a car I only have for occasional blasts.

The Koni Sport dampers that require modification to the front legs seem the most common option. Bilstein offer non-adjustable B6 units but I can't find any feedback from anyone who has fitted them? The other option is to replace with original Sachs inserts. My question is, which will result in the best handling?

 

[sawood12]

Unless you are going to get a full suspension replacement then you are better off going for new stock items (which are not that much cheaper than something like KW), or whatever the cheapest option is that you have mentioned. Adjustable shocks can only do so much but at the end of the day unless you go for stiffer springs the results you get are always going to be limited - improved maybe, but not night and day like you'd get with a full kit like KW, Gaz or Bilstien. Height adjustability is a bit of a red herring really as it is such a PITA to change the height of the car due to TB's you simply wont, so it would only be set once upon installation and then left. Adjustable shockers are good, but again, unless you track the car alot you'll probably set them once and forget about it.

So brand new stock replacemetns will be a marked improvement, upgraded shockers you've mentioned may or may not be even better so just go for the cheapest or most convenient to fit.

I have the old struts off my turbo if you want them (same as S2 units) - that way if you go the Koni route you can modify these off the car and simply swap them over when you're done, thereby minimising the time the car is out of action. Would be nice to have the struts shot blasted and re-enamled while you're at it.

 

[ChasR]

I too wish to ask this question. My car is on 17" Carrera 2 wheels and I was wondering what the best dampers are and I am on new lower arms (Hartech) and soon to be on 968 Castor mounts and new ARB bushes. Whilst I may do the very odd track day now and again (I've said that for years though, and I do now have another track toy in the form of a 205 GTi...), I use the car on the road alot.

FWIW, Sachs rears are £80 each for an S2 off Type 911, with the fronts coming to £250 a leg (I can't find stock inserts), meaning with postage they are around £650 delivered to your door.

I probably won't be changing anything until next year.

 

[Diver944]

The Sachs standard front shocks have come down a little to £170 at Type911 (£250 at Bert) and are the best option unless you want to go extreme. They will be a night and day improvement compared to 20 year old shocks, well they were with mine at 15 years

http://www.type911shop.co.uk/shop/article_1790/944-Turbo-1990-on-Sachs-Front-Strut-Right.html?shop_param=cid%3D298%26aid%3D1790%26

 

[supersport]

Time to ask a stupid question[&:]

I am about to get myself a 944 as a daily runner and track toy and at some point I guess I will be wanting to renew the shocks/springs etc. Reading this thread two things come to mind; I thought that the 944 had torsion bars at the rear and I had read that the fronts were the same as the MK1 Golf and therefore could be replaced quite cheaply (??).

Given some of the prices talked about here, maybe my view of cheap is different?

 

[edh]

The rears are torsion bars (which make the dampers relatively cheap, and easy to fit) Swapping torsion bars is a big job, unless you cut a hole in the wing.

I believe the fronts shared a lot of Golf parts in early models - but not later ones. The later front dampers are sealed units - you buy the whole strut. There is a DIY option to chop off the top of the strut housing and fit a Koni Insert. I think you'll probably find a write-up of this procedure on here somewhere.

 

[supersport]

Thanks, having read that clearly I was confusing rear springs with dampers, doh!

From what year/model did the fronts change from Golf parts to sealed ones?

 

[ChasR]

AFAIK the 1985/1 (Series 1) cars and before had the Mk1 Golf bits, making things like lower arms alot cheaper. The same goes for the Porsche 924s bar maybe the 924S Le Mans which I think came with coilover suspension up front.

ORIGINAL: Diver944

The Sachs standard front shocks have come down a little to £170 at Type911 (£250 at Bert) and are the best option unless you want to go extreme. They will be a night and day improvement compared to 20 year old shocks, well they were with mine at 15 years

http://www.type911shop.co.uk/shop/article_1790/944-Turbo-1990-on-Sachs-Front-Strut-Right.html?shop_param=cid%3D298%26aid%3D1790%26

From that site, it states are there two types of dampers for the Turbo (pre 89 and post 89), with the earlier type being pricier and also the type the S2 shares. Or can the later ones be fitted with no problems?

Maybe I'm after the moon on a stick but I'd like to add a little more nimbleness to my car, although at high speed it's fine. I'm hoping the new dampers and castor mounts help . I think I've made my mind up anyway from your post about which dampers to go for Paul .

FWIW, the rear dampers on my car are yellow. I'd guess it has had Koni replacements at some point in the past.

 

[ocallen]

I have Spax fitted to my lux with their lowered springs and find them really good. Very good prices too.

 

[evoboy69]

Thanks for all the suggestions and helpful advice. It's kind of you to offer your old Struts Sawood but I think it's the standard Sachs route I'm gonna go for. Whilst I'm at it I'm going to replace any worn bushes and change for 968 caster mounts as well as getting the alignment sorted. Hopefully it should transform what is already a very satisfying car to drive! []

 

[sawood12]

I'm sure you'll be delighted with the results. The 944 on stock suspension is a superbly handling car and with fresh bushes and suspension you'll be giving it a new lease of life. Though if you are looking at spending upwards of £700 or over when some people have had KW installed and set up for £1300.... you're almost there!!

Just seen on the Ford Accessories list a set of Eibach 'Sports' springs that lower the car 30mm and stiffen up the spring rates but are progressive rate springs so shouldn't upset the ride too much. Might enquire when i'm in to pick up some other bits and bobs. I suppose even attempting to make the Smax more sporty is a pointless task, but i'm strangely drawn to them. To be fair she handles quite well for a big 'ol bus and have already taken her on a few of my favourite and well known twisty roads and she performs admirably - drives like a car and not an van like all other MPV's i've driven. Not a patch on the old Porker of course, but is not completely and utterly hopeless.

 

[ChasR]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

Though if you are looking at spending upwards of £700 or over when some people have had KW installed and set up for £1300.... you're almost there!!.

It's still double the money, until you mentioned setup. Where did you get it setup and fitted for that price? Last time I checked ProMax wanted £1.3k for just the kit...

I need to ask though, what is the ride comfort like on the ProMax suspension and can it be set to stock or slightly lower than stock height. Whilst I want something that is nimble and on its feet, I'd also want something that doesn't jar over rough country roads, or become unsettled easily, hence why I was thinking standard, bar me having 17" wheels.

 

[Neil Haughey]

I asked a very well known Indie about upgrading the replacement suspension many years ago and got a very negative response. The crazy thing is back then for not much more money and some work we could have done what is ideal IMHO if one could get all the bits cheap enough, which is 968 shocks all round, 968 CS front springs and 25.5 mm torsion bars for the back end. Depending on the pricing it may be best at the moment to fit koni inserts on the front.

Is there really a Bilstein strut for our cars? I thought this was only for S1 944's?

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey
Is there really a Bilstein strut for our cars? I thought this was only for S1 944's?

This is my understanding. There is a lot more choice for the series 1 cars.

The front suspension on my S2 is very Mk1 Golf-like, but no major parts are swappable (as far as I know). The design is identical, and if you know how the front of a Mk1 Golf works then the 944 arrangement will be very obvious, but the parts themselves are different.

I ddi the Koni thang a couple of years ago. I have recounted the tale on here many times before - a search will find it. It is a very good option, but I only compared it with the previous (stock, worn-out) set-up. I haven't driven a KW equipped machine, and only briefly driven a machine with new stock dampers. The comparison between that and mine was that the Koni's seemed a bit stiffer, but that's about all.

If you do change the dampers then it is worth changing other bits as well (search will tell you more) and WELL worth getting a full alignment done (if you don't do the full alignment then you are wasting your money on the new parts.)


Oli.

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: ChasR

ORIGINAL: sawood12

Though if you are looking at spending upwards of £700 or over when some people have had KW installed and set up for £1300.... you're almost there!!.

It's still double the money, until you mentioned setup. Where did you get it setup and fitted for that price? Last time I checked ProMax wanted £1.3k for just the kit...

I need to ask though, what is the ride comfort like on the ProMax suspension and can it be set to stock or slightly lower than stock height. Whilst I want something that is nimble and on its feet, I'd also want something that doesn't jar over rough country roads, or become unsettled easily, hence why I was thinking standard, bar me having 17" wheels.

I didn't get the KW installed in my car for anywhere near that price as I had it installed the 'proper' way []. Others have had it installed for round about that price without having the rear TB's re-indexed by having the eccentrics adjusted and the price came in at around that price fully fitted. There isn't much to the job if you do it that way.