Some 987.2 questions and modifications

[lowndes]

It has been interesting reading the GT4 thread, to some extent because speculation about a new car has prompted questions and discussion about modifications to the older versions. I have a few questions myself on that but didn't want to take the GT4 thread to far OT so have set them out here in a new thread. If this is the wrong place then please move.

My car, late 2009, so I assume MY2010, 987 Cayman S, manual, short shift, LSD, Sport Chrono, 19" Sport design wheel. As far as I am aware, all completely stock.

So here are my initial questions.

1. I have looked through most of the obvious menus but can find no way of telling what the oil pressure or temperature reading are. I like to keep an eye on both of these parameters and assume the engine has the necessary pick up points. I have noticed that on 991 there is quite a bit of "thermal management" coded in and for example Sport mode temperatures are different to normal mode. Typically oil in normal mode is 110+°C whereas in Sport it is 90°C.

So anyone have any neat way of displaying this information in the cabin?

2. I understand from some US experience that 987 can have cooling issues and use is made of a third radiator. Anyone here thought it necessary? Still on heat management, does anyone know if the factory LSD includes any additional cooling?

3. My current tyres are PS2 but I thought I would run MPSS for track use. Current thinking is to get a second set of wheels. OEM can be expensive so any suggestions for a wheel with similar offset? Also for track use any views on 18" v 19"?

4. I plan on leaving the suspension as it is for now until I've run a few track days and am more familiar with the stock set up.

5. Ditto the engine which I find plenty powerful enough for now

6. The brakes are the one area I find slightly underwhelming. They are OK but seem to lack the reassuring relentless bite of some of Porsche's more powerful braking systems. Any thoughts?

 

[spyderman]

3. MPSS would be great on track in the wet but you'll muller them in the dry. If you can get them in the right sizes, the new Cup2s would be far better. 6. Try different pads - something with a bit more bite - but be prepared to have sqealy brakes. Consider Performance Friction or Pagid. Chris.

 

[MrDemon]

I agree with the above, the PSS is a road tyre still , just one at the top if its game. The issue with putting CUP 2's on a stock car is the SUS and geo cannot take them,you will have far to much roll and not enough Camber. There are many things you can do to the 987.2 cars, it's a great mid engine platform, you just need to expand more what you want to gain from it. I would 1st set the geo to max you can get which will be between -1 and -1.2 with no toe in at all up front, keep rear stock. Fit PSS Fit RS 29's with ceratec on all contact points and motul 660 or SRF fluid. Fit GT3 front brake air ducts. that's a good starting point esp if you are new to these types of mods and cars/track work PSS do stand up ok on track just keeps laps to 5 at a time and drop pressures after the 1st few laps if you drop pressures 1st (which I see a lot) you go out on tyres too cold with too low a pressure and just scrub the tyres. do 3 laps come in drop pressures, go out and then find you will want new LCA, new sus, new tyres and more power lol I would not worry to much about oil, your tyres will go off before your oil boils up, just an issue on PDK cars in the USA when they run on very hot days.

 

[Motorhead]

Nick, Chris and MrD have addressed some of the points you've raised. The only note of caution I'd raise about fitting something like some of the more track-oriented Pagid pads for general use is that you could experience brake squeal and low speed rumble; not something you really want for your trip to the supermarket and potentially very tiresome on a long journey too. For a more extreme brake upgrade you could probably fit the 997.2 Carerra S discs and [6-pot?] calipers. Most of the PDK cooling issues have been raised in the US where their ambient temperatures can be much higher than those we experience in Blighty and I'm not aware of there being any reported problems here. You have the manual 'box [well done!] so I can't see you having any issues in this respect. When designing the Gen2 engine, Porsche learnt from the well-documented problems with the Gen1. One area addressed was sump scavenging, the Gen2 incorporating 4 scavenge pumps compared with the Gen1's 2 pumps. For extreme track use, companies such as Autofarm offer sump extension kits which give increased sump capacity, a lower oil pick-up and increased baffling. I too have the factory fitted LSD and I'm not aware that there's any provision for additional cooling. Why would it be necessary on a road car? As you say, there's no provision for monitoring the oil pressure and temperature on our cars and I can't recall seeing any aftermarket kits which display these values. Clearly they are available to the DME, together with a multitude of other sensor values, but you'd need to tap into the CAN-bus to get the data. Long gone are the days when we used physically to tap into the main oil gallery and attach a couple of wires to a gauge to get the pressure and temperature. Jeff

 

[lowndes]

Many thanks for the prompt responses guys. Much appreciated. MrD makes a fair point in asking what I want to get out of it. In answer I would say travel in reasonable comfort to do on average around 5-6 track days per year, not necessarily all in this country. Previously I have used a completely standard 964RS. That had more than enough power, superb brakes but not too much by way of creature comforts nor help when ambition threatened to exceed ability. In the end it became more valuable than I wanted to bend so I traded it for a 996GT3. This was similar to the 964 save that it had too much power but at least was more comfortable to travel in. Hopefully the 987 will prove a nice balance without being a compromise. Interesting comments on the tyres. I had Cup tyres on the 997GT2 and I found them more limiting in the wet than I was comfortable with. I may have a word with Chris at CG to see what he thinks about Cup tyres with the standard suspension. At the moment the Design 911 wheel looks promising as regards offset but they couldn’t tell me the weights of the wheels. I think OEM are 10.9kg and 12.1kg but if anyone knows different that would be of interest. Bearing in mind that my 3.2 has three oil gauges, it is disappointing to have none at all on the Cayman. Mind you from what I remember the GT3 was the same; an odd omission for a company that at least in part tries to retain some engineering heritage. One of the main reasons for going Gen2 and 3.4 was the improved oil scavenging. Autofarm are quite close and serviced the 964 and GT3 so I may have a word with them but think that for my type of use the current improvements should be sufficient. I think I will change the pads. A bit of noise I can tolerate. No doubt I will be back with more dumb questions ere too long. Cheers Nick

 

[MrDemon]

just do pads, ducts, camber, fluid and PSS then repost your findings this will work very well on the road, say hello to Chris for me if you go , he knows my Spyder very well.

 

[Motorhead]

Nick, On the oil pressure/temp gauge query, here's something I found on P-9 which might be of interest: http://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-boxster-chat/23590-should-cayman-have-oil-pressure-gauge-5.html You could ditch the idiotic Sport Chrono timer and maybe replace it with a combined pressure and temp gauge. Jeff

 

[spyderman]

TBH Cup2s are very nearly slicks so I understand your concern about wearing them in the wet. You might instead consider Toyo R888 or similar - wheel size will dictate availability. I guess a lot depends on how much you're going to push it on track, but you must carefully heat manage road tyres if you stick with them. MrD has kindly responded to my squealy RS29 comment elsewhere and from our race experience, these pads really are a superb option for the modern 1300kg-upwards Porsche on track. You can easily take the car into ABS braking with these and decent fluid, lap after lap, for the bigger stops and so long as your cooling is improved to match, you won't get fade. Beware though that their cold bite is, shall say, limited! Chris.

 

[tscaptain]

On the subject of which pads, I used to run RS 29s but have now changed to RS 14s, on recommendation, and find them better for mainly road use with occasional track day. ( and less noisy!)[]

 

[lowndes]

ORIGINAL: Motorhead Nick, On the oil pressure/temp gauge query, here's something I found on P-9 which might be of interest: http://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-boxster-chat/23590-should-cayman-have-oil-pressure-gauge-5.html You could ditch the idiotic Sport Chrono timer and maybe replace it with a combined pressure and temp gauge. Jeff

Jeff Thanks for that link. If nothing else it was reassuring to learn our American Cousins can get into some lively spats too! Unfortunately the link to the SportsChrono installation wouldn't work for me which is a pity because it looks a neat solution. Clearly Gen 1 cars don't have an oil pressure sender but I couldn't see any specific reference to Gen 2 3.4 which I believe is quite different to the Gen 1 version. Nick

 

[lowndes]

Chris/Alan Thanks for the further thoughts on tyres and pads. Bearing in mind I'm not planning on setting any lap records I think I may give the MPSS a try, mind you I need to sort out some wheels first. Alan we might have a chance to chat about pads in a couple of weeks as long as 987 talk is allowed at a 997/991 function [] Nick

 

[MrDemon]

my mate ran PSS at Spa this year on our road trip, they worked bloody well. R888 are noisy buggers