Restore or Resto-mod

[Kongsodoken]

When I first got my 944 my intension was to restore to as new condition I purchased everything new from Porsche OPC and spent a fortune making it as good as it could be even the underside looked like it was just driven out of the dealership.
MY purest thinking was it will add value and keep the quality -Porsche know best why would I change it.
I now know this thinking is flawed -If I drive the car it devalues and gets corroded and dirty there's no fun in keeping the car nice for someone to enjoy when its sold.
My thinking now Resto-mod is actually a more sensible and cost effective way to enjoy the car but more Singer than Ricer in the USA tastefully modified cars seem to fetch a premium over here we value original over modified despite all the issues that come with "originality" .

what's your thinking? and why is it so quiet on this forum -time for a mega build thread I recon

 

[blade7]

Seems the more money that's spent modifying a 944, the less chance there is of getting most of it back. Take cars with a JMG 3.2 or 3.0 16 valve turbo engine, the first owners/builders of those engines could have sunk £10k into them I'd have thought. That only makes sense if the intention was to keep the car for years. Same with chucking £8-10k at the bodywork, no point in doing that for someone else's benefit. I still really enjoy driving my turbo, but not in the wet and not in traffic, a quick modern awd car, with an auto gearbox is much better for those conditions.

 

[scam75]

It's a bold move Ken and I think you have done your homework about values here and in the states. Read an article the other week about a mark 1 Escort with modern internals and the asking price is way north of £100k for a road version and nearly double for a track version. And a waiting list of buyers.

Would a 944 attract the same, definitely not, but you may well start something off, you never know!

And yes, get the content coming!

Stuart

 

[TTM]

The term "resto-mod" apparently came out of the blue when some folks realised at last that modifying cars to make them "better" than new was no more an act of "degradation".
In the particular case of the 944 turbo it has always been a case I think of completing the work the factory never did when it takes so little to increase significantly they way it drives without it losing its "identity", notwithstanding the subjective aspect.

Some friends in pre war car circles are hell bent on keeping as much as possible in original form, including going through the hassle of having white metal bearings redone at vast expense and this escapes me completely as we now have different, far better oils, we add proper filtering devices, modern tyres are far better, etc. Whilst I can still understand the 100% original approach on cars made prior to the massive standardisation triggered after WW2, it makes no sense to me to carry on in this direction with cars made by the 1000s+ such as 944s as the availability of some critical items such as coils, fuel pressure regulators, AFMs, ECUs etc can and will become an issue at some point, so why bother sticking to original parts when more modern, cheaper and easily available replacements are available? The 3.8 FPR for the 944S2, 968 and 4V 928 has become outrageously expensive and some folks have been making adapters to use a cheap unit used on some current Mercedes - will that alter the "originality" of the car, or at least make any difference in how it drives? Not one bit.

As soon as we look into mass produced cars using any sort of fuel injection, they are a picture of what the technology was at the time and a step in a continuous time line of technical progress where the next instance was "better" than the previous one. On such cars I see no reason to stick 100% to original components just for the sake of it.

 

[Kongsodoken]

it seems that you can take a 80s 964 put on after market body kit upgrade engine suspension etc and now it’s £150K RSR replica as Stuart says same true of MK1 escort etc do that with a 944 values goes down- frustrating
for me it’s not about value I just like having something to fix restore but now I’m firmly in the fit the best part -original or not

 

[dlknight]

Interesting thoughts Ken!

I started out getting mine running again after it had been off the road for a couple of years following some bodywork and a respray. First job was putting everything back properly that had been removed for the respray. I then slipped down the slippery slope of fixing and restoring things, starting with the rear end and then ending up with a full engine rebuild because of what I found after removing the transmission.

When I first had my 944 Turbo, I was only just able to afford to keep it on the road. When I had work done at Promax it was always a compromise of what was actually needed and what was a nice to have.

Now I'm older and have some of the skills and more importantly space to do jobs myself (also the car isn't a daily driver anymore). I see this as an opportunity to refresh the car and experience what the car must have been like (possibly even better) when the first owner drove it from the dealership all those years ago. I don't think I'll ever have the opportunity to own a brand-new Porsche (or an old one that has been kept in a time capsule) so this is the story behind my restoration.

Strangely I was discussing this with my neighbour on the weekend, the difference between a full clinical restoration and a sympathetic restoration. The interior on my 944 Turbo is good but not like new, and I think that would perhaps be a step to far to renew all the seat coverings and carpets. The old interior smell and bits of wear give it some character and are how I always remember the car.

To me the mechanicals are different and can be treated in a different way, instead of replacing everything, I find it much better to clean it up. Then it can be preserved again with underseal or wax (whatever your choice) and hopefully last another 35 years without falling apart.

It certainly is a journey of blood, sweat, and close to tears at times! Would I do it again.... possibly for the right car.

This one isn't going anywhere which is why I've exuded so many hours into it.

 

[blade7]

A very impressive UK Resto-mod has been undertaken by a guy that goes by the name of Penguinracer, over on Rennlist. Check out his thread there, if you're not familiar with what he's doing. I think it's close to completion, though he's been silent now for around 6 months.

 

[Kongsodoken]

A very impressive UK Resto-mod has been undertaken by a guy that goes by the name of Penguinracer, over on Rennlist. Check out his thread there, if you're not familiar with what he's doing. I think it's close to completion, though he's been silent now for around 6 months.

is it just me -I cant see the link

 

[blade7]

is it just me -I cant see the link

Search his name and engine durability starting around April last year. There's over 350 posts in the discussion.

 

[John Sims]

There is no denying that Porsche built a great car. A factory fresh one today would be very nice, but that cassette player ain't streaming your tunes (or audio book) from your phone. That's just one example of how you know you will want to change something.

When you are out on the road in your PORSCHE do you really want to be moving over because some little twonk, in a hoodie, is right up your chuff on the dual carriageway driving his mildly hot euro shopping car. Even if you don't (because we are adults) you want to at least have the ability to turn him into a speck in your mirror. Without adding some hot sauce this isn't going to happen now.

So there you have it. You have a PORSCHE (with all its creature comfort compromises) because it is a sports car. Time has moved on and they don't seem very sporty now... but they are a good platform for something that will still speckise a hoodie wearer with a little work.

If you want to build a museum piece why bother with a Porsche when Austin Allegros are much rarer?

 

[Greenman986S]

As above...what do you want the car for?
-shows?
- track days?
- back road blasts?
- touring?
- other?

 

[PSH]

I'll add my 2 cents...keeping an all original car only really has one home and it will never see the road, this home is a museum, such as Porsche's very own. The 944 turbo has so much more to offer if breathed on a little but for me the mods should stop when it comes to the external appearance, a little lower is fine but not much else, its such a beautiful car to begin with, why ruin it with a big wing stuck on the back or front( unless its a track focussed car, of course). Interior upgrades are fine if following the Porsche style and of course the modern touches of ICE and SAT Nav systems, no boom boxes though..
Engine mods should be a must on such a capable car although personally I draw a line on engine swaps ( hate LS) or even bigger bore changes. The 2.5 is such a wonderful power unit which can give more than enough power and still maintain the feel of the original drive.
These are my personal views, as they day, each to their own.

Pete

 

[Kongsodoken]

For me I believe more than ever Mods are OK body-suspension-engine-interior all allowable as long as quality is maintained.
I ask myself “would Porsche or Singer do it” if it’s good enough for them then why not.

Looking forward to driving mine if it’s ever finished -

 

[blade7]

I wouldn't mind the adjustable 968 turbo rear spoiler, and a subtle front splitter. And the fixed perspex headlight covers, or perhaps pop ups that only lifted half as high, with a pair of 4" projector lamps each side. Plus a pair of louvres stamped into the bonnet. My MOT man gave an advisory for a noisy exhaust. I reckon when I fit the VEMS with the big K&N cone filter it's going sound even better .

 

[PSH]

My MOT man gave an advisory for a noisy exhaust. I reckon when I fit the VEMS with the big K&N cone filter it's going sound even better .

A decent sized cone filter and larger exhaust certainly do help to improve the sound, I love the sound of my car and it seems so do my neighbours, although I do get the odd comment of how they can hear the car start long before I leave the drive...

 

[Eldavo]

I wouldn't mind the adjustable 968 turbo rear spoiler, and a subtle front splitter. And the fixed perspex headlight covers, or perhaps pop ups that only lifted half as high, with a pair of 4" projector lamps each side. Plus a pair of louvres stamped into the bonnet. My MOT man gave an advisory for a noisy exhaust. I reckon when I fit the VEMS with the big K&N cone filter it's going sound even better .

You’ve just reminded me that I have a bonnet with the D9 Louvres fitted in it - I left it in the store room at my bodyshop about 4-5 years ago and it’s still there

 

[blade7]

I transported a spare bonnet in the back of my turbo a few years back. Stick it back on, and see if it runs any cooler?

 

[AnotherPITA]

Probably most relevant to this thread, but also for the modified engine rebuilds i guess - I don't seem to be able to post a new thread for some reason?

Registering historic, classic, rebuilt vehicles and vehicles converted to electric

www.gov.uk

Its a Government consultation on the future management of restoring and rebuilding classic/historic vehicles. There's a link on the website that takes you to the survey. Takes about half an hour.