Nice seats in a 944
- Thread starter Hilux
- Start date
DivineE
New member
Ah ha! That was an extremely useful find thank you. I've been wanting to adapt the standard 'sports' seats for years to allow fitment of harnesses. I wasn't sure what the official height would be to install a slot in the back of the seat and had a few concerns about originality.
This picture cures both. Although I think I will go for a much thinner slot if I'm going to make a set after market. I think that looks a bit ugly like that.
This picture cures both. Although I think I will go for a much thinner slot if I'm going to make a set after market. I think that looks a bit ugly like that.
Neil Haughey
New member
...and they only look like 4 point = death trap submarining risk.
DivineE
New member
Surely if the belts are fixed securely from similar height in the back of the car they'd be safe? I was going to fix them in the boot floor and run the belts through the gap where the back seats fold?
I didn't think the seats needed to be structural? Just a guide loop to keep them in place? Why the danger?
I didn't think the seats needed to be structural? Just a guide loop to keep them in place? Why the danger?
edh
New member
Because in a crash the force from the belt is acting downwards on the seat back - if it's not strong enough the seat will break. Then you are not restrained.
AFAIK FIA seats are tested for strength to ensure they stay in one pice under the loads that might be exterted on them in a crash.
Not so sure about submarining in an upright seat Neil - is it really that much of a risk? I can see in a single seater it can present more of a risk.
AFAIK FIA seats are tested for strength to ensure they stay in one pice under the loads that might be exterted on them in a crash.
Not so sure about submarining in an upright seat Neil - is it really that much of a risk? I can see in a single seater it can present more of a risk.
Neil Haughey
New member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR_FhuSEaU8
Its like an advert really for the Scroth ASM 4 point belts but shows what can happen with a standard 4 point belt. My race car has 6 point harnesses, I can recall talking to Kevin Eacock about this and he was surprised that 4 point are still legal in the blue book, those extra 2 belts are there for good reason.
Its like an advert really for the Scroth ASM 4 point belts but shows what can happen with a standard 4 point belt. My race car has 6 point harnesses, I can recall talking to Kevin Eacock about this and he was surprised that 4 point are still legal in the blue book, those extra 2 belts are there for good reason.
DivineE
New member
Really so that is legal. That's much nicer than the usual legal type harness which I don't like. I was just going to get a nice cam type one and live in ignorance but it might be worth being legal if that satisfies criteria.
So what would you have to do to get the seat back legally approved? Surely some kit car type licensing committee could approve a modified seat for you? I like the way the interior look with the standard sports seat and they're comfortable too. I wouldn't want to change it for a bucket type but at the same time after my accident I don't think I'd ever want a regular seat belt again by choice. It was the twisting around the belt which fractured my spine and knackered my shoulder. It just seems like common sense to have the body with strained evenly.
So what would you have to do to get the seat back legally approved? Surely some kit car type licensing committee could approve a modified seat for you? I like the way the interior look with the standard sports seat and they're comfortable too. I wouldn't want to change it for a bucket type but at the same time after my accident I don't think I'd ever want a regular seat belt again by choice. It was the twisting around the belt which fractured my spine and knackered my shoulder. It just seems like common sense to have the body with strained evenly.
Neil Haughey
New member
The problem you will have is with E marking, an insurer could claim you don't have belts approved for road use in Europe.
Hilux
New member
The road belts must be E marked and have a RED push button.
This is because for everyone on the road it is second nature to push a button whereas cam locks are rare to most people.
Also the pressure required on a push lock is less than a cam lock and lessens as you push it so kids etc can use them. This is useful if you are upside down (ask me how I know [:'(])
The Schroth ones are both MSA and E approved and if you want to you can fit a single or double crotch strap when on track. Not cheap but then how much do you value your safety and voiding your insurance!!
I cant see how you would get a seat approved. You need to get an old seat and see how it is constructed.
All I was going to do was cut a slot and insert the two sided slot cases. I`m not anymore as the car has gone but good luck anyway BUT .................. dont use harnesses with the original seats as the design of the seat means that in a heavy frontal it will spread them out and down around the seat sides projecting you forward and ripping your arms off at the shoulder and will not support you for the same reason if rolling or upside down.
Harnesses need to be on your collar bone each side of your head about 10-20 degrees sloping back.
Anyone got an old seat that you could tear apart for us to have a look?
This is because for everyone on the road it is second nature to push a button whereas cam locks are rare to most people.
Also the pressure required on a push lock is less than a cam lock and lessens as you push it so kids etc can use them. This is useful if you are upside down (ask me how I know [:'(])
The Schroth ones are both MSA and E approved and if you want to you can fit a single or double crotch strap when on track. Not cheap but then how much do you value your safety and voiding your insurance!!
I cant see how you would get a seat approved. You need to get an old seat and see how it is constructed.
All I was going to do was cut a slot and insert the two sided slot cases. I`m not anymore as the car has gone but good luck anyway BUT .................. dont use harnesses with the original seats as the design of the seat means that in a heavy frontal it will spread them out and down around the seat sides projecting you forward and ripping your arms off at the shoulder and will not support you for the same reason if rolling or upside down.
Harnesses need to be on your collar bone each side of your head about 10-20 degrees sloping back.
Anyone got an old seat that you could tear apart for us to have a look?
Neil Haughey
New member
ISTR this is only because the tester didn't check as if it doesn't have an E marking then strictly speaking they are not approved for use on a road car on European roads. I had a chat about this with the ppl who made the belts for my race car, they claimed they have never had a car rejected at MoT test due to the belts. At the end of the day it will come down to the insurer, on the race car it is insured as a competition car and the insurers know and understand the spec of the car in this case as its what they specialise in [Richard Egger]. My 968 is bone stock and will stay that way.
Hilux
New member
No its mandatory in the EEC (I didnt notice it was a US site)
If your tester lets it through then he is acknowledging the belts lock but is in ignorance in my opinion.
In an accident your insurers can use this to null and void your insurance if you havent declared the exact modification ie: non road legal harnesses which are an MOT fail.
edh
New member
My Honda is a road legal race car (and the series regs meant it had to be driven to each race)
I'll ask the chap who I use for my MOT's - and who has just set up a new race team running Clio Cups. He has a 2010 car in his workshop - £37k!! Slicks for the season cost £10k [:-] Makes Porsche club racing look very cheap.
I'll ask the chap who I use for my MOT's - and who has just set up a new race team running Clio Cups. He has a 2010 car in his workshop - £37k!! Slicks for the season cost £10k [:-] Makes Porsche club racing look very cheap.
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