Insurance Warning

[Lowtimer]

Ouch. That story is very much worth telling - thanks for sharing.

 

[chrisjcoe]

I'd just like to advise you on a little insurance problem I had wtih ClassicLine.

My policy was due for renewal on 21st July, and ClassicLine were still the cheapest, but I hadn't quite got round to renewing. On 19th July they actually phoned me to check if I wanted to renew, so I did. Pleased with their service and relieved that I was insured, I happily drove the car around for the next few weeks. Yesterday, concerned that no money had been taken from my bank, I phoned them up. It turns out that they had taken the card details down wrong, the payment had failed, and they hadn't bothered to contact me to get the correct details. Instead, they just let the policy lapse with no further action.

So, for almost 2 weeks I had been uninsured, and driving the car around in blissful ignorance, including a trip from Colchester to Lincoln and back. In that time I could have been stopped and prosecuted for driving without insurance, and any claim I made would have been void. The fact I believed I had insurance, and believed I had paid for insurance would not have mattered, because it is my responsibility to ensure I am insured.

At worst this could have resulted in getting a £5000 fine, losing my license and having my car seized. At best it would have cost me £200 and 6 points. Either would have resulted in a massive financial penalty on all future insurance. If I wanted any recompense for the failure to renew, I would have had to drag them through the courts, costing me a lot more money. Also, we all know how inflexible the DVLA are, so I would have expected years of fighting for no progress.

As the car was in the work carpark, and it was 5pm, I had to hastily get ClassicLine to insure me. I did ask why I wasn't contacted when the payment failed, but the (very helpful David) couldn't answer and could just promise that I'd be receiving the documents in the post.

I was lucky on this occasion, but the next person who experiences a similar ClassicLine renewal fiasco might not be.

 

[zcacogp]

Good warning. Thanks. In practice, you would have had recompense from them if you had been stopped but - as you said - it would have been a dirty and long process. If I was you, I'd be writing a letter to someone senior there, outlining the facts as you told them here, and asking what they have to say about the matter. Don't just grumble on the forums, grumble to the people who can make something change ... Oli.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Hi Chris, Sorry to hear this, knowing you're uninsured is a horrible feeling. I think we need to be careful to avoid the "name and shame" rules here. Any company makes mistakes, and it's more how it's dealt with that matters. Ian Fray is the Chairman of Classicline, and I think he'd be very interested to read your comments. Whilst I had huge issues with my claim through them, they were very helpful in dealing with the insurer who were messing me around. Oli's right. Often it's nice to "sound off" to friends on a forum, but in extreme cases it can lead to legal action from companies if they feel they've been damaged by being named. That's clearly not the case here, but we do have to be careful. []

 

[944 man]

You wouldnt have received an endorsement or fine either, with an experienced motoring solicitor (special reasons argument). David Brown is incompetent - a point that I have strongly made to CL already.

 

[PORKA]

The little know fact is the rule that it is your responsibility to ensure that the money has been transferred from either bank account or credit card and payment has been accepted by them not the insurance company.

 

[Copperman05]

Something similar happened to my Dad some years ago when the AA failed to notify him of his upcoming renewal date, let the insurance run out and left him uninsured for 2 weeks before he found out. Ultimately it was his responsibility but they agreed to pay his renewal fee in compensation as an apology. Edd

 

[chrisjcoe]

I think we need to be careful to avoid the "name and shame" rules here. Any company makes mistakes, and it's more how it's dealt with that matters.

Yes Paul, it's a fine line, and I tried to word my email so as not to unfairly slate them, just tried to state fact. I'm happy to remove the CL name if that's preferred though, no issues with that whatsoever. My main intention was to raise awareness of the perils of renewing (while having a little moan if I'm honest). I'd got into the habit of just accepting things as done after I'd hung up the phone, but in future will be double and triple checking. When I phoned up to check I did find David (don't remember his surname) to be very helpful though, so cannot criticise him at all. All my dealings with Nicky Mason have been equally as good. As a company I find them no better or worse than any other, it's just a shame that a simple mistake could have cost me very dearly. I would not warn anyone away from ClassicLine, as their price was excellent (£185.83 for 3000 miles). I worked a year in insurance when I first left school and know mistakes happen. A colleague of mine found herself escorted to the door when we found a proposal for a surgeon's HIV insurance hidden in her draw, a mistake that could have closed the business if a claim had been made. Even the best companies make mistakes.

The little know fact is the rule that it is your responsibility to ensure that the money has been transferred from either bank account or credit card and payment has been accepted by them not the insurance company.

This is an important thing to remember, saying you believed you were insured does not mean a thing, even if you have circumstantial evidence to back it up. At the end of the day, if you are not insured, you are not insured, and it would be up to you to seek redress if you were justified. Then, you'd have to have the same fight with the DVLA over any penalties that they applied.

You wouldnt have received an endorsement or fine either, with an experienced motoring solicitor (special reasons argument).

You may well be right, but affording a solicitor is a bit of a problem for a lot of people.

 

[ukmastiff]

Its very easy for people to say what he 'should' have done to check he was insured and yes ultimately it is down to the driver but congrats for putting your head above the parapett in posting as many folk wouldnt have bothered for the benefit of all ! I genuinely do always check ask mid online which I don't think may folk do and would recommend anyone does the same each time they have renewed. http://www.askmid.com/ Thanks for the useful post. Mas

 

[944 man]

After having to deal with the clown mentioned I checked mine on the MIB website the following day and then every few days for a fortnight...

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: chrisjcoe At worst this could have resulted in getting a £5000 fine, losing my license and having my car seized.

At worst you could have had an accident, which was your fault and the other party, was injured. That doesn't even bear thinking about in terms of cost.... We had something similar. Other half thought that the insurer would automatically contact her a month or so before the renewal date - mine always have. But they didn't and she too drove around for a while uninsured. But, as has been pointed out, that's no excuse and the individual is responsible and they, the insurer, are in the clear.

 

[geoff Ives]

A little advice. When you renew on the phone/online request that a certificate of insurance is e-mailed to you imeadiately. I usually say that it is required for an event that I have entered.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Good advice, Geoff. [] Another thing to watch is renewals, as I found doing my van yesterday. The renewal quote was £496, so I called them...... "That seems high, I've shopped around and got a quote of £301 but would rather stay with you" "Well, we do include a lot of extras like breakdown cover" "I don't want all that, what's your best price" "£302" [&:]

 

[Paul 290T]

For the first time in 21 years of daily driver motor policies insurance i renewed with the company who were my current insurer. In all of the other years the current insurers renewal was very uncompetitive. I wonder if the insurers have changed their strategy on renewal costs?

 

[Frenchy]

Hastings have been good for my everyday, and the renewal had not shot up, only downside is they try to flog you all sorts of other insurance related products that you do not need.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I wonder if the insurers have changed their strategy on renewal costs?

Although we all see insurance as a tax, and a license to print money for the companies, in fact motor policies lose money for them on average. The current ease of doing a quick comparison for a better deal is good in the sense it gets us the lowest price, but also carries a risk that they have to hit you somewhere else. That might be on service, perhaps that the reaosn for the problem I had, and Chris has had, with Classicline: someone who's insured my car for 10 years without fault until recently. I'm sure it's partly a coincidence, but I also suspect that all insurance brokers are struggling to compete with the online comparison sites. What worries me is that you need to rely on the broker in the event of a claim. Fair enough, if you go for the cheapest cover from a major insurer, you appreciate that your 944 is valued at £900 book price, and a small knock means your pride and joy is off to the crusher. We need the specialist brokers though, as they understand agreed values, local specialist repairers etc. It's a real concern if the multi-national insurers become so cheap they put the specialists out of business. Whilst I understand the need to save money if possible, insuring a specialist car isn't best done through someone like Direct Line or Tesco, unless you accept it's almost third-party cover. The car will be written off in the event of a claim, simple as that. We also have a collective responsibility to minimise claims. That means not taking the hire car if you don't need it, or any other extras. I was shocked by the level of bullying I got, pressurising me to take every possible extra service, including personal injury, for a small car-park knock. When you understand that the insurer gets a commission from the hire-car company, the legal team, the recovery driver, you see why they push for all the "free" services you can claim, but this all adds masses to the premiums next year.

 

[944Turbo]

I struggle a great deal with insurers claims that compulsory insurances make them no money (car insurance, employers liability etc.) I suspect that they throw the majority ( or all) the costs of the building / staff / computer systems / telephones etc etc. against them on the books to make it look like there is no money made and increasing the profits on the optional insurances. They are only in it for the money if they were not making any they would be out of it! Tony

 

[pauljmcnulty]

They are only in it for the money if they were not making any they would be out of it!

I remember from my days in catering that the restaurant industry in the UK makes a net loss. More restaurants lose money than make money, despite it being a huge industry that employs a lot of people. The whole turnaround of restaurants opening and going bust actually makes a load of money for the associated industries, and keeps a lot of people off the dole, so not a bad thing unless you start your own restaurant! I might be wrong, but there have been claims from all the major insurers that UK private motor insurance is a net-loss market. Some might make a small profit, others consider it part of their overall business and it's a loss-leader, but it's not the cash-cow we see it as. Fact is, we're seeing so many businesses expanding in to areas they can't possibly all make a profit from. The AA for a plumber, Tesco for your mortgage, it's all about getting you more and more tied to one company for everything, even if some of their products lose them money.

 

[zcacogp]

I think you need to see the 'loss' in the slightly bigger picture; they pay out more than they collect in premiums, but don't make a loss. The insurance industry effectively holds a lot of cash on deposit and invests this cash to make a profit. (In simple terms, they take all your money up front but are statistically unlikely to have to pay it out in a claim until a few months have passed.) If investments go well, they can afford to lower their net premiums; if investments go badly, those premiums go up. This explains why there is such a hike in premiums if you want to pay in instalments. In many ways the insurance industry is very similar to the banking industry although is much more likely to pay out a given deposit within a given time frame. It is hence closely tied to the investment and other financial markets. To say that it makes a loss is correct from some points of view, but not correct when the whole of the picture is take into account. Oli. (Consultant to various financial industries for many years, which may explain why I am a cautious bar-steward who never wants to spend money!) []

 

[ChasR]

ORIGINAL: geoff ives A little advice. When you renew on the phone/online request that a certificate of insurance is e-mailed to you imeadiately. I usually say that it is required for an event that I have entered.

Some insurance companies refuse to do this, since they said many people will say that the certificate in a home printed form will not be acceptable. My local post office used to get quite funny about this as well until very recently. Thankfully that number seems to be dwindling. I am similar to Simon in how I check whether my cars are insured or not .