Gear Change and steering feel

[J4CKO]

Was out in my Cab yesterday with the roof down for the first time and I really enjoyed it, however two things were irking me slightly.

Gear Change, it isnt great, it goes in all the gears but there is a fair amount of slop, not sure what they were like when new but I imagine it would have been better, after years of Golf's with awful changes I found that there was a kit to refurbish the linkage and it transformed it. I had a look at the lever and that seems ok, perhaps a little play in the ball/socket at the bottom, I put some copper grease in there to smoothings up as it was a bit stiff (hadnt been used for a while as previous owner bought a 993) but think it needs a proper looking at so after some pointers as these tactile things are one makes or breaks the driving of a car. first to second is ok (if a bit of a distance), second to third requires a long journey across the gate and third to fourth is ok, fifth requires a bit of a push and coming back down into fourth can be hit and miss and needs deliberate placement. I appreciate it has a long linkage and its old but I think there is an improvement I can make, any pointers ?

Also, steering, bit of vagueness around the straight ahead, will try and get the camber plates but will look at the UJ's, track rod ends and ball joints and replace things in the cheapest order !

 

[Lowtimer]

The linkage slop is a common bit of old age wear and tear and it can all be refurbed. Some people fit quick shift linkages as part of this but a quickshift does not in itself eliminate all the possible original wear points, and a well set up standard linkage is very nice. I shall not presume to tell you how to do it as Promax did mine alongside a load of other work, but other people on here have done their own and will probably chip in shortly.

Is there any evidence in the car's history of it having the suspension geometry properly set up in the last year or two? If not, chances are it is probably well out. Definitely renew anything that looks worn or sloppy, including the 968 castor mounts as discussed here: http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=682648
.. and get a proper geo setup, it will probably make a lot of difference.

 

[Fat Albert]

Hi Jacko, we had a couple of threads on gear slop in the past year and I had the same issue, look here:
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=666807&mpage=1&key=linkageò¢·¿

and look at this website for a step by step guide to changing the gear lever, it took me 25 minutes to do it
http://944foot2thefloor.blogspot.com/2010/06/how-to-remove-and-replace-worn-gear.html

And here is the thread on upgrading to the 968 short-shift linkage:
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=475449

 

[zcacogp]

Interesting Q. Whenever the topic of gearlever slop comes up people always suggest re-bushing the pin on the gear stick itself, or replacing the nylon bush on the top of the transmission.

However, when I had the gearbox off my S2 (when I changed the clutch, a couple of years ago), I noticed that the majority of the slop in the (poorly-designed) mechanism on top of the transmission seemed to come from the bearings at the end of part 29 in the picture below.

This is little more than a strip made of a bit of old baked bean tin with some holes in the end, which was one of the main parts used to provide a solid location for the moving parts of the gearshift mechanism. These holes were completely worn out on my car and hence allowed a lot of movement, making for slop in the gear lever.

I remember looking at it and thinking that it would have been child's play to make a significantly improved replacement part from a couple of small rose joints and a bit of threaded rod, but I didn't have time - I needed to get the clutch job done as the car is my daily driver. This has remained as a job that I mean to get done ever since, but getting the gearbox off is a fair old faff, and hence I haven't tackled it. I'm also slightly mystified that no-one has tried to improve on this weak spot, instead of replacing the parts already mentioned. (Which could well suggest that I am wrong in my diagnosis! [])

If there was someone locally with a gearbox off the car then I'd be quite interested to pay them a visit in order to design the replacement part ...


Oli.

 

[Mike_Pollock]

I thoroughly about the cross piece. This is what eventually happens (at 274K plus and I had had a go at putting a Poly bush in there, it worked quite well but not for long!)

Mid you I think this gearbox has had a hard life

The cross piece is now available on its own from Ebay, but made from nylon for about £30


Oli - Pity you're so far away - I have one sitting in my garage

 

[Fat Albert]

Oli, I only suggested it as it cured 75% of my sloppiness and is a quick, easy and cheap fix to try first!
Agree that there are two ends to the linkage.

Also note that as the Gearbox is slung out the back it take a bit longer to warm up than a conventional box so can be a bit stiff and sulky for the first few miles anyway!

 

[J4CKO]

Wow, cheers for the info, will take a look this weekend and work out where the slop is coming from, will tackle one job at once. Will settle for a slick changing standard change, not that bothered about the short shift for now, just don't want to have to think about it when driving.

Is it easy enough to get at, looked like a bit of a pain, will get it up on axle stands, where is best to place them ?

Dont mind doing this stuff, just getting decent weather, daylight and the time to do it is the issue.

 

[Fat Albert]

The gear lever is easy to do, you will obviously need to lift the car to get at t'other end

I tend to use a trolley jack under the central jacking points, but usually have to use teh car's jack under one of the rear points to get the par high enough to get the jack under!

Another thing to check with the steering, and an easy 'upgrade', is the anti-roll bar bushing, when I did mine it really tightened up the front end, and again costs about £40-50

 

[J4CKO]

Will get under it at the weekend, usually in my frenzy I order parts based on what I have read when really I should get underneath and ascertain what is causing and issue, noticed that the rear sustension has a slight height difference side to side, perhaps 7mm so that suggests it all needs setting up by someone who knows the cars as I beleive they have several adjustments for castor, camber and ride heigh, suspect mine has had soem work and its not been set up properly, there does seem to be a bit of negative camber on the off side rear wheel as well, could be bushes but suspect it is adjustment or possibly a torsion bar getting old, it did have dampers and stuff a few years back, suspect it never got set up properly after that.

Anyone know anywhere that can do 4 wheel alignment on a 944 in Cheshire ?

 

[GlennS]

ORIGINAL: J4CKO

fifth requires a bit of a push and coming back down into fourth can be hit and miss and needs deliberate placement.

Had this on my S2. Getting it into 4th particularly after running at speed for a while in 5th could be a real chore and often involved much swearing on motorway off-ramps. Changing the gear-box oil improved it greatly. Any idea when the gearbox oil was last changed?

 

[J4CKO]

Ok, bit worried now !

Went out and had a look round with a ruler, it sits almost a cm lower on the right based on the arch gaps, the front right wheel seems to have a hint of positive camber, the other one looks pretty much straight, the rear left seems to have some neg camber and a bit less on the right. Have I bought a bent car or have people just not done the requite adjustments.

No evidence of a bang, all the panel gaps are straight and even, typically huge, the doors, boot and bonnet shut fine.

I am thinking, hoping that the alignment is all to cock due to past inexpert attention, and its not a turkey !

 

[zcacogp]

I wouldn't worry.

1. Alignment is very hard to see with the naked eye. Throw in a non-flat surface and the fact that alignment is done to fractions of a degree, anything that is as far out as you are describing would be travelling sideways and an utter nightmare to drive. Not to mention scrubbing tyres from new to bald in less than the length of your drive.

2. I think the rear wheel arches aren't symmetrical (side to side), so any measurement there will show a problem

I'd bite the bullet and take it to a GOOD alignment place and see what they say. It will cost a reasonable chunk but be well worth it in the long run.


Oli.

 

[J4CKO]

Cheers Oli, was getting a bit worried, I guess I cant really rely on a block paved drived to be totally flat, it drives ok apart from the slight vagueness in the steering, tyres seem to be wearing ok. I did come to think of it read that the arches were not totally symetrical.

Will get a alignment booked in somewhere, any recomendations in the Cheshire, South Manchester area ?

Thanks for the reply, I get a bit paranoid after couple of disasters with cars in the past, engines though.

 

[zcacogp]

Sitting on a block paved drive? Crumbs, that will provide a very very poor reference point. Certainly don't worry. Particularly if it drives OK and has no evidence of a big knock. (A an aside, the standard alignment for an '89 S2 gives a distinctly vague steering feel in the straight ahead position, but it loads up very nicely as you get off-straight and then corners brilliantly.)

No idea where to go in your area - sorry. But ask around on here (another thread, perhaps) and someone will come up with a recommendation, I'm sure.


Oli.

 

[J4CKO]

Yes, drives ok and as you say its a big vague but when you lean on it comes to life, will have a root round, can get tracking done anywhere but a full on alignment is a bit more of a job, especially finding someone with an understanding of 944's.

 

[zcacogp]

Full on alignment is worth the (considerable) extra cash, but it's worth putting some plus gas - or similar - on the rear adjusters for a week or so before taking it in as they often get seized. Look at the manuals to tell you what's what.

In terms of understanding, 944's are pretty easy to do and any half-decent full alignment place should be able to help you out. They won't be able to give advice on what to set everything to unless they are experienced with the cars but that's not a problem - the advice I had on here is to find the most aggressive settings published by Porsche for the 944 and ask for those. Those happen to be for the '89 year in the case of the S2 (and are probably the same settings for the turbo, but I'm not 100%). Here is the sheet produced when I had mine done some time ago.

(Don't bother going to Wheels in Motion tho' - they were good and well-priced a few years ago, they are now just bl00dy expensive!)


Oli.

 

[Lowtimer]

Hartech in Bolton can set up your suspension properly.

 

[J4CKO]

ORIGINAL: Lowtimer

Hartech in Bolton can set up your suspension properly.

I rang them, chap was very helpful but said it would be £300 plus VAT, if nothing is seized !

Think I will, as mention by Oli ensure that all the bolts can be undone (one at a time so as not to lose the settings) before I take it anywhere,might have to be somewhere a bit cheaper than an open ended £300 plus.

I have a couple of mates who may be able to assist, one is a motorsport mechanic and the other a lecturer in Motor Vehicle Tech who knows how to do it.

Makes me wonder how much the gear actually costs to do it yourself, along with a bit of learning and practice ? have already learnt block paving isnt ideal !

 

[zcacogp]

Mark,

I admire your DIY attitude, and share it, but chassis alignment is something I am very happy to pay to have done. It is a very, very exacting science, and the gear to do it properly is very expensive. Some things in life are worth paying for - this is one of them.


Oli.

 

[robwright]

IIRC the rear requires a special tool to set up properly but the rear is very seldom out or only marginally if it is. The problem usually lies in the front for obvious reasons. Most four wheel computerised laser alignment jobbers can deal with the front and many will check them for free and do a basic alignment for fifty quid. They will even have your settings in the computer. To that end what I would do is see if you can get a free check and then if only the front needs doing get that done fairly cheaply. If the whole lot needs doing ask them if they can do it and get them to commit to a price if they say they can. Failing that you will know what needs doing and will know where you stand for free. To be fair most of these guys if they are any good at the mainstream stuff they will know that they won't be able to do the rear and will tell you so. Be wary of any who just carte blanche say yeah no problem we can do that without checking into it. They probably can't!!!! In my case just the front needed doing. It cost me 50 quid and transformed the handling and the tyre wear. To be fair to the garage did shear one of the camber bolts but asked me to get a replacement, knocked the price off the bill. fitted it and realligned it for me again when it arrived.