Fuchs for Cup 3 alloy swap anyone?

[Telster]

So, I'm now on my 2nd 944! Pre-empting the inevitable bombardment, here she is, a 1990 S2 Cabriolet, PX'd for my similarly Guards Red 1983 Lux coupé.

If I'd got anything else, then my two sons would have complained vociferously! I always wanted a cabrio, but it was the coupé convinced me that a 944 can be the perfect family car! Well, I can't think of many others that are proper sports cars to make me grin on the commute, but can still fit four at the weekend. Admittedly, squeezing child seats in required significant "adjustments", as I hadn't anticipated the lower roof line of the soft-top and how it folds. Still, two happy children as you can see and it passed the rigourous Missus NCAP test.

Coming straight from using the 2.5l 8v Lux as a daily driver, to the 3.0l 16v S2, I'm in a position to compare the models, and I have to say the latter feels much more modern. I was expecting an evolution, but it feels completely different "" much smoother and fair chunk faster! The older model did feel a bit more chuckable although, surprisingly, seems to have had less grip. Also grew to love the retro interior "" the latter seems a bit more plasticcy and dull.

Sorry, now for the ostensible point of the post; I've always imagined having a set of Fuchs if I ever had a Porsche, so now that I'm probably here to stay, anyone have some and want to do a swap for some fairly new Porsche Cup 3s? Ideally somewhere near Hampshire for logistical reasons?!

 

[Cater_Racer]

The handling thing is probably the rag-top not being as stiff as the coupé.

Sorry can't help with the wheels

 

[Diver944]

Unfortunately you cannot fit genuine Fuchs to a later offset car like your S2 - they will stick out too far.

If you really want Fuchs style then places like Lindsey Racing in the states can make them whatever size you want if you have the $$$$$

Porsche themselves brought out a Fuchs style wheel on the 997 a couple of years ago but again you will need £££££ to get these

 

[Telster]

Really? Damn. But thanks for info!

 

[Copperman05]

Fuchs now make 16 and 17" wheels in the later offset, going to be expensive though and available only from Fuchs according to 911 and Porsche world...

Not sure if I like them in the later offset anyway, the whole point of the deep dish wheels is that they look deep dish, the later ones dont and hence look like a cheap copy...


Edd

 

[Copperman05]

If you have less grip it may be the tyres, what do you have on the S2 at present?

Edd

 

[Telster]

Hmmm, didn't realise there was such a big difference in the offset, but thanks Edd, completely agree about deep dish. Oh well!

Not sure what tyres, but better grip on the cabrio may be down to the 18" Cup 3s? Ride is rock hard mind you - I don't mind at all, but suspect passengers do! Not noticed any flex so far, but certainly feels noticeably heavier than the '83 coupé.

 

[Lowtimer]

It would handle a lot better on 16" wheels than on those 18", for sure.

 

[colin944]

In my own humble opinion 18's are to big for a 44. 16 inch d90's or 17inch cup 1's for me every time on a late car.Or on an early car it can only be fuchs.Although the faster the vw boys stop using them the better as they keep buying up all the front wheels to make sets.

 

[Copperman05]

ORIGINAL: colin944

In my own humble opinion 18's are to big for a 44. 16 inch d90's or 17inch cup 1's for me every time on a late car.Or on an early car it can only be fuchs.Although the faster the vw boys stop using them the better as they keep buying up all the front wheels to make sets.

+1, another alternative would be 16" cup 1's, better comfort than 17" and might be more suitable for a cab.

A la

(picture not mine)

Edd

 

[Telster]

Thanks all. Reckon most on this forum would agree something smaller would be an improvement, but none of the Cups are really my cup of tea to be honest. Other than the D90s, what else would fit? What are the measurements I should look for? Ta!

 

[Copperman05]

Teledials? Again look better in the early offset but also available in later offset to. But to be honest if you dont like cups or D90's you may struggle to find something period.


Edd

 

[Mike_Pollock]

Car looks lovely! Will have a cab one day.
Square dash and later cars have very different steering geo and that's what makes the steering so different also the ARB is huge in comparison to the early car.
I love the forged Dustbin lids an option on early Turbos - often found on 928s but in a different offset -I also like D90s cast or forged but rather dislike Teles.

Must add that these are actually 928 7jx16 in this pic but you cant tell the offset from this angle - I now have the 944 7J and 8J ones on[]

 

[simkin911]

The later style forged alloys from the '88-'90 era would look great on your cab IMO.

 

[colin944]

+1 on the bin lids. Not keen on 16 inch cups,but can see why they would be a good option(comfort etc).But the simple truth on our cars is that they need a decent side wall in order to ride properly.No point in having the elastic band look on them as they just don't respond well to ultra low profiles and end up driving and handling worse than they do on a set of 16's.Also cars with big 18's and huge tyres will eat ball joints and arb droplinks etc.And we all know how expensive they are to replace.944's run best on porsche wheels with the correct offset.

 

[Frenchy]

As stated get 16" or 17" max to make the car much nicer to drive, as for Fuchs swap, have you saw how much Fuchs go for now ?

 

[bmnelsc]

ORIGINAL: Telster

Hmmm, didn't realise there was such a big difference in the offset, but thanks Edd, completely agree about deep dish. Oh well!

Not sure what tyres, but better grip on the cabrio may be down to the 18" Cup 3s? Ride is rock hard mind you - I don't mind at all, but suspect passengers do! Not noticed any flex so far, but certainly feels noticeably heavier than the '83 coupé.

Porsche does NOT recommend anything larger than 17" wheels on 944 as it upsets the suspension geometry. Even going from 16" to 17" requires some minor parts changes (mostly alignment adjusters to what I think are 968 parts). You may find your handling improved by going back to 16 or 17 wheels with the proper parts. I saved the following from somewhere and as I read it - even 17" wheels are not recommended for cabrios....

Here's the official Porsche statement on 17" wheels on 944/951s (ignore spacer info):
---------------------------- ARTICLE BEGINNING
TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN : 17 INCH APPROVED WHEELS & TIRES Model(s): 1987-On Porsche 944 (with M30 option) 1987-On Porsche 944S (with M30 option) 1987-On Porsche 944 T (with M30 option) 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S 1989 Porsche 944 Turbo 1989-On Porsche 944 S2 Group: 4 Bulletin No.: 9303 Date: September 28, 1993 SERVICE INFORMATION Concern: Installing 17" Porsche wheels on vehicles previously equipped with 16" wheels.
SERVICE PROCEDURE Installation Information 1. Front and rear fender well lips must be reworked and/or checked for adequate tire clearance. See Fig. 1. 2. Suspension travel must also be checked. Parts such as brake lines, hoses and brackets must have adequate clearance. 3. New caster eccentrics, rear mounts and nuts must be installed in the front control arms. This change is necessary due to a change in caster specification on vehicles equipped with Porsche 17" wheels. The specification for vehicles equipped with 17" wheels is 3'-15'-45. See Fig. 2. (not sure where this got off to

4. Vehicles must have a rear stabilizer bar. 5. When adjusting vehicles to new caster specification, all alignment values should be checked at that time. 6. When summer tires are used on vehicles with 17" Porsche wheels, snow chains cannot be used. If winter tires are used, only snow chains with Porsche Part Number 911 361 924 00 may be used. 7. Tire pressures for front and rear 17" Porsche wheels is to be set at 2.5 bar (36 PSI) at approximately 20'C (68'F). 8. When using this rim and tire combination, a 17mm spacer plate must be installed on the rear wheel hub. The customer must be informed that if the emergency wheel is needed, the spacer must be removed. 9. Not for Cabriolet vehicles.
APPROVED WHEEL & TIRE TABLE Tire size Rim size Offset Position Note
225/45 ZR 17 7,t Jxl7 AH 65mm Front Summer tires 255/40 ZR 17 9 Jxl7 AH 55mm Rear (See installation information A through G.) 225/45 ZR 17 8 Jxl7 AH 52mm Front Summer tires 255/40 ZR 17 94.@ JX17 AH 68nm Rear (See installation information A through I.) 205/50 R 17 7;-i Jxl7 AH 65mm Front Winter tires 225/45 R 17 8 Jxl7 AH 52mm Rear (See installation information A through G.)
NOTE: When using this rim and tire combination, a 17mm spacer plate must be installed on the rear wheel hub. The customer must be informed that if the emergency wheel is needed, the spacer must be removed.
PARTS INFORMATION TABLE Description Part Number Quantity Spacer Ring 951 331 611 02 2 Wheel Bolt 904 341 671 00 10 Wheel Nut 999 1 82 003 36 10
APPROVED WHEEL PART NUMBER TABLE Size Offset Part Number 7;-i Jxl7 AH 65mm 96536212405 8 Jxl7 AH 52mm 96536212601 9 Jxl7 AH 55mm 96536212800 91.@ Jxl7 AH 68mm 96536212805
APPROVED TIRES AND SIZES (SUMMER VERSIONS) TABLE Size Makes 225/45 ZR 17 Front Bridgestone Expedia S-01 Nl 255/40 ZR 17 Rear Continental Sport Contact CZ 91 NO Pirelli P700-Z NO Yokohama A 008P NO Michelin MXX 3 NO or MXX NO Pilot SX
APPROVED TIRES AND SIZES (WINTER VERSIONS) TABLE Size Makes 205/50 R 17 89 H M&S Front Bridgestone WT05 225/45 R 17 90 H M&S Rear Continental TS 750 Pirelli winter 210 Performance
SUSPENSION PART NUMBER TABLE Suspension Parts 1. Rear Mount Part Number Quantity Required 951 341 023 00 2 each 2. Eccentric 951 341 431 02 2 each 3. Nut (torque to 100 Nm) 900 910 115 02 4 each END OF ARTICLE

 

[deafasapost]

looks lovely!!

off topic tho, what child seats are you using in the rear?
i have a 2 year old, and another due in august so 2 kiddie seats are needed for the back.

ta for the reply in advance.

Al.

 

[Telster]

Hmm, thanks for the info. Looks like I'm going to have to continue looking for replacements!

Child seats in a Cabrio - not easy!! Especially if you're married to someone who works in paediatric, paliative care! In the coupe, I bought two non-reclining Nania child seats (similar to Pampero's from Halfords) but one went up to 18kg (for the younger one who's now nearly two) and the other up to 36 kg (for the elder who is now four). To get them to fit in the sculpted rear bucket seats I had to remove some extraneous plastic. I ignored the seatbelts which didn't secure them sufficiently and instead used high-rated luggage straps which hook to a retaining hook in the boot, through the gap in the folding seats, through the back of the child seat and then back to the hook. It was sufficiently tight that I could not move the seat with all my strength and the fact that it was held fast against the seat back meant that they also had sufficient leg room.

The space in the cabrio is similar and there is still the retaining hook in the boot. What I did not realise is that if you try to fold the hood, it will foul the top of the car seats. For one of the car seats I removed the headrest, which was too high for the younger anyway. Even then the roof would not fold, so I had to put a spacer between the back of the child seat and the car to push the seat forward. The result is secure, but I am concerned he'll grow out of it in a year.

For the elder, there was no way I could get his seat in, in a way that we were comfortable with. He's legally old enough for a booster now, but there are only lap belts in the cabriolet. In any case, we think he's too young to move away from the 5-point style harnesses. My solution was to primarily rely on the lap belt, but also add the straps from the old car seat to harness his upper body. I removed the straps and screwed them to the back of the folding section of the seat. The clip is attached to the lapbelt, essentially creating a 6-point harness. You can just see the red straps in the pic attached. It's a massive improvement on normal seat belts, so I'm quite pleased with it and, as you can see, so's Felix!

Hope that helps, but appreciate, it's not going to be a solution for everyone!

 

[u63af]

I have just put my forged 944 turbo wheels on fleabay. I am only changing due to getting big red calipers and thus had no option but to get 17"s. I agree car drives better on 16"s (I have had both)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-944-16-Turbo-forged-club-sport-alloy-wheels-like-d90-/230739306679?pt=UK_CarParts_Acc_Wheels_tyres_Rims_Car_Wheels_ET&hash=item35b92268b7