bodyparts/improvements

[edh]

ORIGINAL: edh

Loads of front camber will really help the turn in & kill understeer

Can you tell me how this is achieved? My 924S has a fair amount of -ve camber on the rear but not the front.
[/quote]


Andy - it's dead simple

There are 2 bolts connecting the strut to the hub. One of these is an eccentric and you can use to change the camber (loosen the lock nut first []). I did it myself & got lucky with the numbers -when I had it checked it was -3 both sides, but any alignment place would do it in minutes.

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

Just a couple or three points.

Best place to remove weight is from the front end, makes a huge difference to the cars dynamics which is why you will see that every ground up built 944 race car has fibreglass everything up front (wings / bonnet / bumper cover / badge panel) with no head lights.

I was convinced for a long time that I needed better brakes but two things changed my mind:

1) Using proper Pagid race pads. In my case yellow up front and orange in the back. The balance is perfect and whilst the system always boils the fluid I have never had the brakes go off. I have also used the EMC cooling duct kit but recently haven't had the hoses on and it hasn't made a huge difference.

2) Following Alex Eacock and having tuition from Ben Demetriou. Between them Alex won the championship last year and has something like 30+ race wins, Ben won his class in the championship 3 times and held/holds several class lap records some of which are barely believable they are that fast. Neither of those guys brake that late, instead easing up before turning in so that the car is nicely set up to get on the throttle really really early way before the apex a lot of the time. Those guys have demonstrated that this is the fastest way to drive these cars. Ben drove my car at Combe the other week and honestly I can't see how bigger calipers would reduced the lap time. I brake harder than he does and in my own case I haven't found the brakes lacking in ultimate power on list 1B tyres.

I don't doubt that medium black calipers (M030) will be sharper and help stop the car fractionally quicker, I don't believe for a second though that they will make anyone that I know off actually lap faster in reality.

Now that I have finally seen the light and realised that trying to race in the clubs championship was really daft for my meagre means the two things I am looking at doing on my car are:
1) Run with 245x45-16 tyres all round, its pretty clear you need as much grip as you can get on the front axle of these cars.
2) Fit adjustable rear ARB drop links. This last one is for a very specific reason. When one corner weights a car you're supposed to disconnect the ARBs but the problem with this is that on a 944 the stock drop links are not adjustable and the car always seems to put a lot of pre-load into the ARBs and hence across the car mucking up the point of doing the corner weighting in the first place. I am hoping that with adjustable rear drop links I/we can corner weight the car more properly and hence set the rear ARB with 0 pre-load.

Brilliant post Neil

I concur on driving styles - having sat in with Mike Wilds when he took my car for a few laps at Donington - he was on the throttle very early in the corners. I think there's less margin for error that way, but then I suppose that's where the skill comes in ....As you say that style really does rely on having plenty of front end grip, and balancing the car on the throttle as you go through the bend. I guess most 944's used on the track don't really have enough front grip. Lots of camber and front tyre is the answer I'm sure. I run -3deg front with 225/45/17 all round - maybe 255 would be better, but would be a lot more expensive.

 

[Andy97]

ORIGINAL: edh

ORIGINAL: edh

Loads of front camber will really help the turn in & kill understeer

Can you tell me how this is achieved? My 924S has a fair amount of -ve camber on the rear but not the front.

ORIGINAL: edh
Andy - it's dead simple

There are 2 bolts connecting the strut to the hub. One of these is an eccentric and you can use to change the camber (loosen the lock nut first []). I did it myself & got lucky with the numbers -when I had it checked it was -3 both sides, but any alignment place would do it in minutes.

[/quote]

Thanks, I'll have a look at that.

 

[Andy97]

ORIGINAL: edh

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

Just a couple or three points.

Best place to remove weight is from the front end, makes a huge difference to the cars dynamics which is why you will see that every ground up built 944 race car has fibreglass everything up front (wings / bonnet / bumper cover / badge panel) with no head lights.

I was convinced for a long time that I needed better brakes but two things changed my mind:

1) Using proper Pagid race pads. In my case yellow up front and orange in the back. The balance is perfect and whilst the system always boils the fluid I have never had the brakes go off. I have also used the EMC cooling duct kit but recently haven't had the hoses on and it hasn't made a huge difference.

2) Following Alex Eacock and having tuition from Ben Demetriou. Between them Alex won the championship last year and has something like 30+ race wins, Ben won his class in the championship 3 times and held/holds several class lap records some of which are barely believable they are that fast. Neither of those guys brake that late, instead easing up before turning in so that the car is nicely set up to get on the throttle really really early way before the apex a lot of the time. Those guys have demonstrated that this is the fastest way to drive these cars. Ben drove my car at Combe the other week and honestly I can't see how bigger calipers would reduced the lap time. I brake harder than he does and in my own case I haven't found the brakes lacking in ultimate power on list 1B tyres.

I don't doubt that medium black calipers (M030) will be sharper and help stop the car fractionally quicker, I don't believe for a second though that they will make anyone that I know off actually lap faster in reality.

Now that I have finally seen the light and realised that trying to race in the clubs championship was really daft for my meagre means the two things I am looking at doing on my car are:
1) Run with 245x45-16 tyres all round, its pretty clear you need as much grip as you can get on the front axle of these cars.
2) Fit adjustable rear ARB drop links. This last one is for a very specific reason. When one corner weights a car you're supposed to disconnect the ARBs but the problem with this is that on a 944 the stock drop links are not adjustable and the car always seems to put a lot of pre-load into the ARBs and hence across the car mucking up the point of doing the corner weighting in the first place. I am hoping that with adjustable rear drop links I/we can corner weight the car more properly and hence set the rear ARB with 0 pre-load.

Brilliant post Neil

I concur on driving styles - having sat in with Mike Wilds when he took my car for a few laps at Donington - he was on the throttle very early in the corners. I think there's less margin for error that way, but then I suppose that's where the skill comes in ....As you say that style really does rely on having plenty of front end grip, and balancing the car on the throttle as you go through the bend. I guess most 944's used on the track don't really have enough front grip. Lots of camber and front tyre is the answer I'm sure. I run -3deg front with 225/45/17 all round - maybe 255 would be better, but would be a lot more expensive.

Got to be careful though. At Donington last Saturday I turned in to Redgate a bit early and was on the power early; I was starting to understeer wide on exit and so came off the pedal, probably a bit abruptly, and had a bit of a tank slapper and fishtailed as the weight came off the rear. I thought I'd held it.....until I rotated! Damn. No harm done!

 

[edh]

as I said..."that's where the skill comes in" []

and with more front end grip you can make it work a bit better for you

 

[944 man]

Are 'extra' camber bolts available?

 

[Andy97]

ORIGINAL: edh

as I said..."that's where the skill comes in" []

I knew there was a snag some where!

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: 944 man

Are 'extra' camber bolts available?

never heard of any - how much "extra" do you want?

 

[944 man]

Whether you need any extra at all depends on how much the design provides for and, of course, how much you can get in practice. It isnt uncommon to not be able to get the full range on one side or on both.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ISTR on stock struts you can only get about -2.5 degrees or so, on the GAZ you can go crazy up to something like -6.5 degrees. On stock struts the top one of the pair of strut bolts has a cam shape so you can turn it to adjust camber and then lock it off. On the Gaz struts the holes on the strut legs are slotted on the top one to adjust camber. Need a good -4 degrees or more for racing Andy.

 

[edh]

-3 on my kw's and not at the limit of adjustment yet. Still driveable on the road but massively improved turn in compared to previous settings ( somewhere round -1 I think)

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: edh

as I said..."that's where the skill comes in" []

and with more front end grip you can make it work a bit better for you

Andy I firmly believe its a confidence thing. Once you can trust the car and know it will not chuck you off the track and has a setup that works the confidence comes to get the pedal down. Going round Combe with Ben was a huge boost and eye opener for me as the main difference between us in driving style was that Ben turns in faster than I tend to and a touch later. I have tended to take the slow in fast out concept a bit to far and hence brake too much (too long trailing it in) hence slowing the car more than is needed. This for me is part 2 of the confidence thing because if having the confidence to get the throttle down hard and early is difficult for me having the confidence to turn in late and fast requires even more confidence in the car and its grip. Corners like Redgate are a perfect example because I can see the gravel trap right in front and it requires a lot of trust in the car and ones ability to go right up to that corner of the tarmac, ease up on the brakes and turn in hard and late. I don't quite have that confidence yet. I might be a bit odd though as most ppl seem to start the other way with carrying too much in it seems and then can't get the throttle down.

 

[Hilux]

2) Fit adjustable rear ARB drop links. This last one is for a very specific reason. When one corner weights a car you're supposed to disconnect the ARBs but the problem with this is that on a 944 the stock drop links are not adjustable and the car always seems to put a lot of pre-load into the ARBs and hence across the car mucking up the point of doing the corner weighting in the first place. I am hoping that with adjustable rear drop links I/we can corner weight the car more properly and hence set the rear ARB with 0 pre-load.

Good sound advice.

Mo30`s seem ok until you fit properly engineered ARB`s that complement the required handling on track then you realise how soft they are.

Fit decent adjustable ARB`s (I fitted Weltmeister) - amazing upgrade - flat cornering - even tyre temps.

 

[Cater_Racer]

Great Post Neil, as always, I run 3 degrees front camber on mine, still working on the skill bit' []