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Are these 944s figures right?

Hallsy

New member
Was browsing though a post on PH, and came across some Autocar performance figures - can't link to exact post, but it's about halfway down this page:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1245975&mid=156578&i=180&nmt=RE%3A+SOTW%3A+Porsche+944&mid=156578

Those figures have the 944s as being the slowest 944 by some margin.

Do they look right? I know the 944S is slated for being a bit down on torque, and the gearing being a bit off, but from studying the torque/power curves before, the 944S has more as much torque on paper low down than the 8V, and more above 3.5k. Is the gearing really that bad?

 
In real terms, i.e. on the track at donnington back in 1994 my 944s would keep pace with a 911 sc which I believe was 188 bhp at the time. We got a bit of clear track and he booted it and so did I. I was convinced the 944 would close on him, I guess he was equally convinced he would pull away. Honours even. Sililarly at a track day at castle combe, pre chicanes, I kept a 928 behind me and I was only blown away by 3.2 carreras, 964s and 993 as they were the curernt model. Obviously no 944 turbos or S2s on track with me. You just had to be brutal in the application of the loud pedal. the "S" had a 6,800 rev limit and it had to be used. I am not entirely convinced that some tester had the courage to take it to the rev limiter. How can something with 30 more horse power than a 160 944, be a scant 1mph quicker in overall top speed. Lots of discrepancies in that table. I remember reading a road test of an s compared with the Renault Alpine and I'm pretty sure that tester gave a 7.3 sec to 62 timng. It was twenty years ago, the report came with the car and was sold on with that test report. Elsewhere in the forum pages there are some posts from me with more expanded views of the S.
 
Huh? How much courage do you think it takes to rev a factory test car, supply specifically for performance testing, to the red line? Absolutely none. It takes a lot more more courage to tell Porsche and everyone else, in print, that the test car they supplied didn't make its factory-claimed acceleration figures, and that's what they had to do.

Having worked for Autocar's publisher and witnessed the process at first hand, I know the road testers of both Autocar and Motor (two separate magazines back then, until we bought Motor and merged them) were in that era fully willing and able to do whatever they had to do to a car to get the absolute maximum acceleration figures out of it. Autocar never did a full set of 944S figures but the fact is in late 1986 Motor independently tested the factory-provided 944S test car (one of several 944 variants over the years to wear the registration 94 FOR), and found it to be slower than expected, especially at low and mid-range revs, having tested the car using reliable instrumentation, proven technique, at a fully suitable locations (MIRA and Millbrook) in good conditions.

Car and Driver in the USA, at the time the only US magazine to performance-test with the intellectual rigour and reliability of the two main UK weeklies, was given a different car to test and made that one go a bit quicker but not that much (0-60 in 6.8 seconds versus Motor's 7.8, but still only 0-100 in 19.8 secs versus Motor's 21.1).

Personally I think the 944S test car that Motor had was not a good example - there are many reasons an engine can be down on power while still behaving itself, and I think that was a duff one. If so, that was not a unique event in the history of road testing. Later on, one of the last 944 250 Turbo cabs was tested as being nearly two seconds slower to 100 than the original S2 test car, when it should have been substantially quicker. Often these variations are to do with how well run in the car is - few engines deliver absolutely full power in their first 10,000 miles.

What Car did the test against the Alpine in early 1987, a few months later, and, perhaps tellingly, were supplied with a different test car, different colour and everything, D 585 VRX.

That was the fittest yet, 0-60 in 6.5, 0-100 in 18.4, better than both the earlier tests on both sides of the pond. The in-gear figures were much better too. I think that's probably as good as it gets for a really fit S in standard form. The 944S is slightly heavier than a Toyota GT86, has very similar factory power and torque figures, and the GT86 benefit of six gears. The What Car 944S figures are almost identical to those of the GT86, and that's really all you can expect of it.

It's possible that in November 1986, 94 FOR still only had a few thousand miles on it, and by the time Porsche sent the different car for What Car, several months later, that had been run enough to loosen up properly.
 
Interesting views - thanks :)

On paper, that particular car looks wrong. No matter the bad press it got, the 2.5 16V had more horsepower, pretty much the same torque low down, and more past 3500rpm.

I know that many say the 8V feels more willing low down, and that the S suffered partly due to it's gear ratios - but you'd still think that once driven properly (i.e making full use of the power/revs), it ought to be a little quicker than the 8V.

We've not long bought an S2000, so I'm starting to get used to using the revs again, coming from a 330ci and a remapped Impreza WRX!
 
Lowtimer thanks for the good info. I was working from memory, and you go some way to making my point for me when you say it was not as quick in low-mid rev range, and that is my point entirely you needed to keep it over 3600 to get that snap acceleration, and if you did that it would really shift. We are all agreed that the 944s needed to be revved. It was developed so that Porsche could offer a 160 hp car in the US with all the anti smog kit fitted wasn't it? We in the UK benefitted? from being offered the car without all the cats. Interestingly Mark Bennet had a 944s and he always used to say that he didn't suffer from lack of low speed torque. I would have another in a heart beat.
 
It's possible that in November 1986, 94 FOR still only had a few thousand miles on it, and by the time Porsche sent the different car for What Car, several months later, that had been run enough to loosen up properly.

But, we also have to remember that the "S" was prone to losing horses earlier than the other models, the Lux has always held up pretty well on the dyno days where the 16V 2.5s have been down on power.

I ran a Lux with decent miles on it for years, and had a long test drive in a good "S" thanks to Peter Empson. I'd say they were very different in character, but would struggle to say one was actually faster? I'd bet that they'd be pretty level from a standing start over a mile, with the spikey power delivery of the "S" being evened out by the lazy Lux.

Either way, it's pretty irrelevant now. Any decent 944 is a rare and special car, and I'd always suggest buying the best car, rather than one particular varient. If there is any real difference in performance between a Lux, either of the 16-valve models, or an unmodified turbo, it'll be more down to the condition of tyres, suspension etc., and the driver's ability, not the original magazine test figures. [8|]
 
Ages and ages ago, Wayne Schofield told me that by 100k miles the S2 (and so i presume the S) needed a top end rebuild. As he said they lose power because (and I'm really testing my memory here) the valve springs went soft.
 

ORIGINAL: 924nutter
It was developed so that Porsche could offer a 160 hp car in the US with all the anti smog kit fitted wasn't it? We in the UK benefitted? from being offered the car without all the cats.

The federal spec 944S tested by Car & Driver was catalysed and had (according to the factory specs, not dyno numbers) 188 bhp at 6000 rpm, 170 lb ft at 4300 rpm. Just 2 bhp difference right at the top end, compared to the UK non-catalysed spec, no difference to the published max torque figure.
 
Thanks again but I'm sure my info came from the sales blurb that the previous owner had accumulated, It was in a little brochure with pictures of the 16v head, but there's advertising and then there's the facts. Anyway now I have more updated info.
 
[:D]

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