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Are There Any MSA Scrutes on the Board?

944 man

944 man

Active member
...or does anyone know whether theyll pass aluminium bolt on additional sections as seen in Appendix 2 drawing 9 (the side to side braces, not the door bars). Im considering one piece running under the dashboard and another bracing the base of the rear roll hoop. I realise that aluminium cages were outlawed a long long time ago, but I believe that these will be acceptable because theyre over and above the minimum specification thats required. Both proposed bars will be perfectly straight and they are intended to work in compression only.


 
Pop along to Harewood on Sunday and ask the scrutineers there, It is practice day so they will be happy to help. Or I will try to remeber to ask for you.
 
Thatll be nice: a trip to the nice side of the Pennines for you... :D I may be tied up this weekend, although I will try to attend. I would be extremely grateful if you would broach the question on my behalf. To clarify: these will be an addition to a full MSA approved 'national' spec rollcage and if they were removed then the cage would be complete and all fixings will be to ISO 8.8. The cage is complete as shown in picture Appendix 2 picture5 and the braces will be in the 'cross car' positions depicted in picture 9.

Simon
 
Off-topic question, but why are aluminium roll-cages outlawed? I can only see advantages - much lighter for a given strength. Yes, they would need to be bigger than an equivalently-strong steel cage, but this could be catered for in the book of rules, couldn't it?

Or have I missed something?

Come to that, do roll cages have to be made of steel, or are there other acceptable materials? Titanium?


Oli.
 
Safety. Aluminium is either strong or ductile, but never both. Its strong in compression, which is how I will use it, but as soon as you add bends you need very expensive alloys and even then its integrity is questionable. If I recall correctly the FIA outlawed alloy cage in 1987 or thereabouts and the reason was that they simply didnt provide adequate protection.

Simon
 
As far as I am aware yes. CDS or T45. I suppose that you can lobby the FIA or seek individual approval for a part made out of an alternative material, but how youd fare Im not sure.
 
Interesting, thanks.

(I'm not about to lobby them ... my interest is pure curiosity. I know so little about racing car regs that I am struggling to imagine what FIA stands for! [:-] )


Oli.
 
Ive had a quick glance in the book and they appear only to refer to minimum standards, so it may be that if you can demonstate compliance that approval will easily be obtained. Sooner you than me though, and I dread to think about the cost...

ETA: FIA is French, so move along Ros Biff... [:D]
 
does anyone know whether theyll pass aluminium bolt on additional sections as seen in Appendix 2 drawing 9 (the side to side braces, not the door bars). Im considering one piece running under the dashboard and another bracing the base of the rear roll hoop.
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Without wishing to state the obvious - why dont/cant you use steel? Same job and compliant if bolted on with FIA approved clamps.

All I can say to 944 man is GEEK
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Sc0tty

He only asked a question or two (politely) [&o]


 
ORIGINAL: 944 man
Im considering  one piece running under the dashboard and another bracing the base of the rear roll hoop. 
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The first one sounds like a standard dash bar? or knee breaker as some call them. Latest FIA rules for the most modern cars require the dash bar to run on top of the steering column which tallies with general advice to mount it as high as possible. I was tempted to get one but I don't believe I need it, the EMC shell wouldn't have one anyway. The EMC Safety devices cage though does have a tunnel brace bar that braces the rear shock brace cross bar down onto the hump at the front of the rear seat. Is this the second piece you are talking about? or would it be a transverse bar connecting between the hoop just above the tunnel, also referred to as a tunnel brace in some designs? These seem less common but the dash bar seems to be a standard component in a lot of cage designs. Will be interesting to see what the scrutineers say.
 
Its funny that you should mention this Neil, because Ive just been sat in the cabin with a tape measure trying to work out whether a bar can safely be added, without it being a knee-capping special. The rear bar is a certainty though and if the front isnt viable then I will look at braces from the feet inboard to the transmission tunnel (made from CDS). The rear bar that Im proposing would run along the 'hump', as you suggest.

Simon
 
It is a real problem, I spent ages poking around under the dash and found that even if one runs a bar right under the steering column it would still just hit the top of my knees if it moved back more then an inch or two. I couldn't see if I could run one over the steering column without some major heater box/blower/ducting mods etc.

Tunnel brace bars seem like a great idea to me, many designs now have such a bar, the Rollcentre weld in cage for our cars has such a bar for added side impact protection and I noted that the Custom Cages design for the 924S has such a bar.
 
Simon,

I asked the very nice scrutineers about your bars when they looking over my car. I wanted to see them later in the day to get your answer, unfortunatley by the time I was free to see them they had vanished. I am back there on Easter Sunday so will ask again then.

It may be worth just ringing the MSA up and asking?

I also got my hill personal best time[:D][:D][:D]
 
Thank you Peter (and congratulations). Paul: to save weight principally, because each piece made in CDS will weigh a fair deal; so in the limited applications where it will be sufficiently strong Id like to use alloy.

Simon.
 
Simon,

I asked the Scrut's today and the simple answer was no alumininum bars would not be allowed! I think I would still get intouch with the MSA for clarity though.
 
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