997 TT Gen 1

[jonc4s]

Hi all,

Currently in a 996 Turbo and looking to move into 997 Turbo.

Looking at a car currently and have a few questions:

1. Gearbox - I'm currently in a Tip and drive it everyday, like the TIP as a bit lazy but the one I'm looking at is a manual. Am I right to assume the manual has 6 gears? Does the TIP in a 997 have 5 or 6? My 996 is 5 speed and could really do with being 6.

2. What's the clutch like on a manual, are they heavy? The one I am looking at has an uprated clutch just fitted, is this likely to be heavier? It's just been fitted how many miles can you expect if driven with mechanical sympathy?

3. Would high mileage worry you on one of these? Its 120k + miles which I am told is mainly motorway. Porsche main dealer serviced until 99k been independently looked after since then.

4. It's on Ceramics currently. If these were to fail can you swap out for normal brakes if cost become prohibitive? How long should the ceramics last for?

5. If bodywork, engine suspension and brakes are all fine then should the mileage impact on any other aspect of the car that I should be checking?

I'm sure I have more questions that will pop up in due course but any help on the above is appreciated

 

[jonc4s]

ahh yes forgot

6. Crystal Ball time - I was going to wait until the release of the 991 Turbo to upgrade to 997 in the hope it would impact values somewhat. I've not seen values drop that much for a while now. What's your thoughts on this. Is the 991 likely to be that much more expensive that values stay the same do you think?

 

[garyw]

Jon
The Gen1 Turbo according to the magazines is the pinnacle of the model so far.. they love the fact its the last of the Mezger engines and the drama.. possibly to become a classic like the last of the air cooled.- obviously I only found this out after selling mine!![:'(]

The clutch pedal should be quite light, lighter than the standard 997 as was commented on its launch, mine was lovely and light and after 44K it showed no signs of slipping.
120K is one of the highest mileages I've seen on a 7T but I should imagine the cost reflects that, brake disc's can be swapped for steels and are costly to replace, however I would have picked them as they are excellent and keep the wheel clean for longer []

I'd expect quite a few suspension working to of worn as per any car at that mileage otherwise I'd say its a super car to own.
Price wise I think the 996 Turbo has a bearing on where the 997 ends up, I think it will bottom and stabalise towards the 30-35K mark as a guess

garyw

 

[Andy LT]

Yes 6 speed manual on 997. I found that the standard clutch on my Gen 1 997 Turbo is perfect and has a much better overall clutch feel than on the 996. As many have said the Mezger engine on the Gen 1 probably makes them 'keepers' now. Make sure to get the 'Sport' mode option that gives the overboost/different throttle mapping. Ceramic brakes got/get mixed opinions with cons and pros various. Yes it's a straight swap ceramics to steels- you need to investigate how expensive replacing/maintaining ceramics will be to inform your decision. (On Gen 2 the Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV) means that the rear inside wheel is auto-braked whilst cornering, which some people have noted leads to increased wear). I went with steels and am happy with my choice.

I'd look around for cars with lower mileages if poss, but if main dealer serviced perhaps hi-mileage will be OK if the price is right? OPC Warranty runs out at 9 years old, I believe. Perhaps look at independent warranty as some repairs will not be cheap. An OPC 111 pt check should reveal any problems (check for over-revs etc) and is probably worth the cost. If it was me, I'd buy a lower mileage car from an OPC at higher price and worth the peace of mind, IMHO. Have a good look around; there were some nice Gen 1 997 Turbos at OPCs last year.

Hope this helps,

Andy L-T

 

[Lancerlot]

I found my Gen1 Turbo to be under-braked on steel brakes, but it may have been an individual problem. MY next Gen 2 Turbo was much better. PCCB's don't seem to have the pre-load system used with steels, and this is a bonus IMO as I could never get on with that.

PCCB's certainly provide far superior stopping power and will improve handling too due to reduced unsprung weight. They are more resilient to wear, but brittle and can get chipped.

Check the circumferences for splintering and the inside faces for scoring and cracking. There will be a minimum thickness measurement stamped on the metal mounting bell. Make sure the rotor is not worn down to that minimum tolerance.

Regards,

Clive.

 

[jonc4s]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.

GARYW
I love the Mezgher and the fact you rarely hear of problems, even with the doom slayers online (PH!)

My Aston was manual, my current 996 is Auto. My knees aren't great (at bloody 29!) so the manual does concern me a little with the clutch. I love the ease of driving in my current 996 and the manual could be a deal breaker for me on this particular example.

ANDY
It has the sport button, definately something I would want on my next Turbo!
Mileage is a concern but I am confident it's mainly motorway looking at the intervals. Spoken to Dom Delaney at SVP and he looks after a turbo with 200+ which runs fine.
Car I am looking at is low £30's although a trader I spoke to said he'd be offering £27k
Warranty doesn't concern me too much plus the car is modified so that throws out Porsche one.

LANCERLOT
Ceramics scare me - I have funds to buy the car but the thought of nearly 10k bills to replace brakes is no in keeping with my budget. I presume at this mileage the brakes will be due soon ish?

A few questions which I am still unsure of if I may:

1. Does the TIP in a 997 have 5 or 6 gears?

2 Do we think that 997 TT values will suffer when 991 TT is launched.

3 991TT - is this still due Q! 2013?


Appreciate help and advice

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: jonc4s


A few questions which I am still unsure of if I may:

1. Does the TIP in a 997 have 5 or 6 gears?

2 Do we think that 997 TT values will suffer when 991 TT is launched.

3 991TT - is this still due Q! 2013?


Appreciate help and advice

1. 5 (and I loathe it! PDK is the way to go!)
2. Doubt it! (Probably Gen 2 values will fall faster than Gen 1?)
3. Q4 I've heard (along with the GT3)

I don't necessarily agree with Clive that ceramics provide better stopping power. Press hard enough and both will activate the ABS so the grip on the road is the limiting factor. Certainly ceramics don't fade though - handy if you're planning lots of alpine descents!
I guess a Gen 2 PDK may be out of budget but, IMHO, would be worth waiting for and suit your (clutchless) needs and is a world apart from tiptronic. There is all this stuff about the Mezger but there have been very few issues with the DFI engine so far.

Are you looking at the Super Coupes 600+bhp car? Looks a beast!

 

[Andy LT]

Re manual and weak knees- go and test drive it. The car will happily trundle along in 6th at 1500 rpm if you want and then does its party piece when you plant your right foot staying in this gear, especially in Sport mode. With the amount of low down torque the 997 TT has combined with the Variable Turbine Geometry there is a lot more flexibility in driving it. There is a lot to driving a manual TT quickly (i.e. needing to stay off the rev limiter in the early gears/generally better off short-shifting here). If you want an 'easy' car to drive, then PDK is definitely the way to go. When testing PDK Gen 2 Turbo/Turbo S I found that I tended to stay in PDK auto when cruising but manually shifted into lower gears when approaching roundabouts and the like, and that the system was then about 1 sec too slow in auto-shifting back into PDK auto mode and changing back up again when wanting to accelerate. I surmise however that if you have a PDK car that you will easily adapt to getting the best from it.

A lot will depend on whether it's a daily driver. When I was working I found that I liked having auto boxes on some of my daily drivers at the end of a hard work day. I also find that there's something very satisfying when you get your manual changes just right with your 'fun' car and can be in the right gear for the conditions. If you are a flyer then it's the same as flying via an autopilot/Flight Management System and with a stick. (If people knew how little airline pilots actually manually 'fly' aircraft now they'd be quite surprised and even then with Fly-by-Wire controls there is a computer deciding just how much to move the control surfaces by..........).

Another thing with the 997 and the manual box/clutch setup is to really take time with your seating position and to get knees at the right angles; this will make a massive difference on clutch operation. I recall that there were 3 different seat options with the Gen 1 (standard/sports/adaptive sports). I have the adaptives and find that you can really 'dial' this in to get everything 'just right'. I know someone who had to take his 997 (with standard seats) back to the dealer, as he just couldn't get comfortable driving it. I also recall that there was quite a difference between 996 and 997 seats. Porsche do an incredible amount of research on their seats and standard seats are meant to allow virtually every driver to find an ideal position, regardless of physical build. The sports seats work well, but only up to a certain percentile size body mass/shape.

Again, hope this helps you decide

Andy L-T

 

[flat6]

I haven't owned a 997.1 turbo, yet, but enjoy reading about them in the mean time. Here's some info that might be of interest.

Strong engine - interesting information about the stock engine even if, like me, you're not into modding.
http://switzerperformanceinnovation.com/web_en/?p=431

Further discussion about the engine
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-turbo-forum/698775-longevity-of-997-1-turbo.html

Early turbo tip review
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2007-porsche-911-turbo-tiptronic-short-take-road-test

One person's buying guide
http://m.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257624&styleid=24

Overlook the negative context and glean some owners opinions on how the car takes off.
http://m.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253382&styleid=24

More discussion amongst owners
http://m.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257577&styleid=24

I can't profess to have read the above threads in their entirety, so sift through the nuggets and guff at your own pace[]

The Two Second Club
A turbo S (and therefore a gen 2) which is a different beast but awesome to get into The Two Second Club.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jOQFMlpdVI&feature=related

 

[Lancerlot]

My knees are shot, but I don't have any trouble driving a manual Porsche.

If you get the PCCB's checked for wear before you buy, you'll be fine. Maybe make new brake pads all round part of the deal?

Alan's right about no difference in stopping power, but initial bite is much better when warmed up and brake fade is non-existent. []

Carbon brakes just seem to be more confidence-inspiring. They work first time - every time! [] Also, there's the added bonus of no brake dust, so they're kinder to your wheels.

I changed my last Turbo in under 12 months, because I wanted one with PCCB's.

Regards,

Clive.

 

[jonc4s]

Hi all thanks for the info again - great help and interesting reading.

TSCAPTAIN
It's unbelievable that Porsche used the 5-speed TIP again in the 997, it needs 6 gears in the 996...! Yep it's the Super Coupes car, looks like a right animal but a few concerns as documented above. I think it's overpriced at the mileage unless the modifications hold a bit of value to potential purchasers. Interesting to hear your thoughts on the Gen 2 dropping in value quicker than Gen 1 when 991TT is released. Gen 2 is out budget anyway, it's got to be an early Gen 1 car really as don't want to finance much at the moment.

ANDY
Think your right, I will try and arrange a test drive in a manual Turbo and conclude from there. Its a shame I have never found a dealer willing to let me have an extended drive in a car, ie used for work one day to really get a feel for it. It will be daily driver for me so comfort needs to be considered. I'm sure the seats are adaptive in the example that I am looking at which looks good based on your comments, will again need to test them.

FLAT 6
Many thanks for these links - very interesting reading!!!

LANCERLOT
Re-Manual thats encouraging - do you use it every day?
I'm going to ring the dealer now and ask some questions regarding the ceramics. I understand the benefits but the cost is prohibitive when getting into the car for low 30s

 

[RABC]

I've just taken the plunge and swapped my 2007 Red C2S with Aerokit for one of the last 997 Turbo Gen1's with Aerokit in Black..with Manual box.

I have to say it is amazing to drive and far easier to drive fast and slow for that matter..

I would recommend to anybody... Think this ones for life!!

RABC

 

[isysman]

I've just put a deposit down on a 997 Gen 1 and I am picking her up on Friday (1st Feb). Clutch was lighter than my current C2s and I have just had a new clutch a week ago!

Loved the manual gearbox, was initially looking at a Tip but after driving an Audi A3 DSG for a couple of months I decided against it.

As she only has 14k miles this one is a keeper!

 

[Lancerlot]

Excellent news Terence,

Congratulations, bet you can't wait for Friday. Did you decide on that one with PCCB's o another. Manual definitely the right decision for the Gen 1 TT.

Post some pics. on the new car thread when you have collected it and send me an email on 997@porscheclubgb.com. I'll forward you a 997 Register welcome pack.

Regards,

Clive.

 

[grover]

Just go for the turbo S, no mucking around, I know a good one!