997 S/997 Turbo & GT3 Engines

[Chris5150]

Technical question this one... if the S version of the 997 uses 3.8 ltrs as opposed to the standard 3.6, why do the turbos & GT3's use the 3.6 engine?. You would have thought it made sense to start with the bigger displacment engine before 'souping' it up. Im not technical at all, so Im sure someone clever will know exactly why this is, puzzles me!

 

[Kevin Cooke]

Because the turbo and GT3 engine has a totally different lineage than the 996/997/Boxster engine and has many key differences, for example it is fully dry sumped .

It can date its architecture back to the GT1 and before, I'm sure the motorsport experts can fill in much more details.

Regards

Kevin

 

[Chris5150]

Very interesting Kevin, It does make me wonder though why bother then with the 3.8?...is it a natural progression that as time moves on they will develop the 3.8 to be used in the future Turbo's & GT3's....it seems to develop a seperate engine in such a way they must have long term plans for it to superceed the 3.6 or else why bother?. If a 3.6 GT3 puts out 414 bhp, then I am sure they could obviously have got 355 out of the 3.6 without too much effort.

 

[danofesher]

The GT3 engine has many light titanium parts in it to allow it to rev much higher than the ordinary engines and is therefore much more expensive to manufacture.

 

[Alex L]

Slightly off topic but nevertheless an interesting thread on 997 engines from the Rennteam site:

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=316694&an=0&page=1#316694

...shows that the Carrera engine may be put together by Porsche but the components are not MADE by them at all!

 

[YvesD]

ORIGINAL: Alex L

Slightly off topic but nevertheless an interesting thread on 997 engines from the Rennteam site:

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=316694&an=0&page=1#316694

...shows that the Carrera engine may be put together by Porsche but the components are not MADE by them at all!

Hi Alex,

Make's interesting reading doesn't it. No great shakes though really.

How many DB9 owners do you know who are aggrieved by the knowledge that they have two minging [:'(] Mondeo V6 engines roughly spliced together under the bonnet !

Got your turbo on order yet ?

Yves

 

[Mark_Bennett]

Not many components are made by Porsche.

The body panels of the 997 and 987 are pressed at BMW for instance. The gearboxes are made by a Japanese company Aisin (Europe), and either Getrag or ZF for the Auto (I can't remember which! Sorry)
...and so on.

Very few companies MAKE the bits that make up thier products these days. They design them in conjuction with the suppliers, and assemble. The more you can get suppliers to make (and "just in time") the better.

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: YvesD
Hi Alex,

Make's interesting reading doesn't it. No great shakes though really.

How many DB9 owners do you know who are aggrieved by the knowledge that they have two minging [:'(] Mondeo V6 engines roughly spliced together under the bonnet !

Got your turbo on order yet ?

Yves

All spec'ed out (Atlas grey, manual, sports shifter, sport chrono, rear axle-differential lock, ceramic brakes, etc etc) but I just can't bring myself to trade in. Not without first driving a PDK model and also being able to specify a powerkit (at least retrofittable anyway) and PSE. Otherwise it feels too much like I would be trading down and not up!

I don't know, one day I think no way, the next I think I must do now whilst I my C2S Cab is still worth something. My desktop picture is seriously tormenting me though:

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: Alex L

I don't know, one day I think no way, the next I think I must do now whilst I my C2S Cab is still worth something. My desktop picture is seriously tormenting me though:

Give in to the dark side - You cannot resist!

 

[Alex L]

What I am really waiting for is:

[*]PDK: fastest and smoothest incarnation, unless they deliberately keep the boost pressure down to not tread too much on current Tiptronic model resale values
[*]Direct Injection: to show some good faith towards meeting those pesky EU C02 emissions targets, an extra 20bhp along with it is just beside the point!

[*]PSE: To make the car sound like it should, plus to get nicer exhaust tips!
[*]Powerkit: or at least a model that can be retrofitted with it at a later date.

"¦and some subtle styling mods would be nice too!

Tick-tock, tick-tock...come on Porsche your market is waiting for you []

 

[YvesD]

ORIGINAL: okellyt

ORIGINAL: Alex L

I don't know, one day I think no way, the next I think I must do now whilst I my C2S Cab is still worth something. My desktop picture is seriously tormenting me though:

Give in to the dark side - You cannot resist!

No !, I'll never turn to the dark side.

I am a Jedi like my father before me....

Gorgeous turbo picture there, finances permitting I have sort of, maybe, perhaps, got one lined up for Sept 08.

Yves

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: Chris5150
Technical question this one... if the S version of the 997 uses 3.8 ltrs as opposed to the standard 3.6, why do the turbos & GT3's use the 3.6 engine?. You would have thought it made sense to start with the bigger displacement engine before 'souping' it up. I'm not technical at all, so I'm sure someone clever will know exactly why this is, puzzles me!

My take on this is that Porsche Marketing department have set out how they want each 911 model to "˜evolve' over the next X years so that they can keep bringing out new versions and people will keep upgrading. We have been told that the current flat-six engine can be bored out to a max of 4.0L, so I guess a 3.8L Turbo and 3.8L GT3 is next on the agenda for the 998.

There are actually some new rumours that the still to be released 997 Turbo S could be a 3.8L. This is because apparently when the Powerkit is released it won't be retro-fittable to current Turbo models, possibly indicating some big change to the engines after release.

Another rumour indicates a revised 997 GT3RS will have a 3.8L engine at some point. Thus distinguishing it further from the standard GT3.

So I guess we will just have to wait and see"¦

 

[oceancarrera]

Here is some info on the fundamental architecture of the GT3 engine and how it is different from the mass produced Carrera/3.8 engine:

Multi-component basic engine for motorsport

The basic engine [referring to the Mk2 GT3] is largely identical to the former power unit of the GT3 [the Mk1 GT3] in sandwich design, with the cylinder housing, cylinder head and crankshaft housing combined with one another to form one unit for the three cylinders on each side and increase the torsional stiffness of the engine accordingly. Contrary to the engine in the 911 Carrera [ie, the 3.8], therefore, the cylinder housings are not connected to the respective section of the crankcase on each side, but rather form separate units. The reason, quite simply, is that the engine of the GT3, as in the past, provides the foundation for homologating motorsport engines, meaning that Porsche has chosen this most elaborate structure in order to respond very quickly to any changes in motorsport regulations involving, say, the size of the engine. The cylinder liners featured in the light-alloy cylinder housing are made of aluminium and are coated with Nikasil. The cylinder heads, in turn, are made of an extremely temperature-resistant lightalloy.

Another clear pledge to the motorsport orientation of the 911 GT3 is dry sump lubrication with a separate oil tank. Both when applying the brakes to the extreme and remaining on the brakes consistently for a long period, this system ensures an optimum supply of oil to the engine, with a total of five pumps ensuring the necessary lubrication: The main pump in the crankcase feeds oil to the pressure pipes, two suction oil pumps in the crankcase and, respectively, in the cylinder heads feed the oil used back into thereservoir.

edited to say>> this text is an extract from here

 

[Kevin Cooke]

Adrien,

Now you've confused everyone.

Put simply to compare a the 996/997/Boxster engine to the GT3 and turbo lump is like the comparison between the Ford Pinto engine and a BDR-BDG lump, i.e. they both were made by Ford, both had 4 pots and both were 2ltr ish. There endeth any commonality.

Regards

Kevin.

 

[oceancarrera]

ORIGINAL: Kevin Cooke

Put simply to compare a the 996/997/Boxster engine to the GT3 and turbo lump is like the comparison between the Ford Pinto engine and a BDR-BDG lump, i.e. they both were made by Ford, both had 4 pots and both were 2ltr ish.  There endeth any commonality.

yes, I agree!