993 Suspensions, Options and Upgrade Paths

[nbl993]

Advice / suggestions invited...

Many thanks Maurice for the post on the attached in the technical section... That said I am no further forward in deciding what to do with my car. I have a 1994 C2 Coupe with 63k miles. It is used for pure driving pleasure, weekends away and track days.. []

I am looking to upgrade the suspension but I can decide which way to go everthing up to Bilstein BSS9 with RS bars ?

I still want to retain some level of compliance ? Any suggestions..[]

 

[Guest]

I went for Bilstein PSS9s - allow for adjustment for track days or more involved road use. No RS bars. You have to watch that you don't over-lower them, can cause problems & I think there are some posts about this.

Very happy so far, if it helps. Good luck!

 

[Pickled Piper]

Hi,

My car useage is much the same as you describe. Weekend fun use with a handfull of track days. I opted for the Bilstein HDs , MO30 springs and anti roll bars as well as new lower wishbones. I find the set up very good and have no complaints. The car is on 17inch wheels and I would find the ride tiresome on long journeys.

I do occaaisonally wonder if I should have gone for the PSS9 kit. However, the advice I got from several track day enthusiasts was that the fully adjustable coilovers were overkill as very few owners bother to adjust them once they have been installed on the car.

Just my two pence worth.

pp

 

[tim993]

Another option is to go for the KW coil / shocks kit, which is also fully adjustable. I had these fitted to my car last week, but the car is still with the garage waiting for HIDs, so only they know what it's like to drive, so far! Anyhow, it's another option for you to consider, though I can't yet tell you what they are like... I saw the kit in the box and thae same fitted to another car on the ramps at the garage and I must say it looks to be very nicely engineered.

Cheers

tim

 

[sawood12]

Go KW - they are the bees knees. When I picked my car up after installation a 993 was in there having the PSS9 kit removed after only a couple of months because the owner couldn't live with the hard ride. It was the installers opinion that the KW's are in a different league to the PSS9's.

 

[angry]

I have heard the KWs are fantastic.
I have the H&R Springs and Bilstien HD shocks and RS anti-roll bars set up,with good geo and negative camber.
The car handles superbly with quick turn in,very neutral,very little oversteer and is virtually as comfortable as standard on the road,with very even tyre wear.
Gert at Carnewal is a competitive supplier.
As you can tell,i am over the moon with it.
The car get used on the road,some Trackdays and primerily the Nurburgring.
Good fitting and set-up is ESSENTIAL though,for a well balance car.
Dan

 

[tim993]

Hi Maurice - no problem, I'll do that.

tim

 

[Andy B Aces High]

As it has been mentioned there have been numerous and extensive posts on here, one started by myself when I was looking at what to do. If you look back about October time you should find them.

I went with the option of Bilstein HD's from Carnewal (his have extra thread), and geniune Porsche M033 springs as recomended by Carnewal. Did not change my anti roll bars but did fit new A/Rollbar bushes. Car is only used on the road.

The car is lowered by about 20mm from standard and I have found the ride has not been compromised, if anything the car is less "crashy" and more compliant than it was on the original standard suspension. The only problem I have now since have the suspension geometry set up correctly is the rear tyres are rubbing the arches on large road bumps, but this is a problem with my wheels having incorrect offset.

 

[nbl993]

Many thanks for your advice - I will refer back to the October posts Neil [8|]

 

[ubertub]

I've gone for the H&R springs from 9Meister (cheapest supplier I could find) and the HDs with extra front thread from Carnewal. Car is lowered about 30mm. I had the geometry set up by Colin at 9M, which made a great difference. I had complained about the C4 being too understeery for my driving style and Colin adjusted the suspension to suit. The car feels very well balanced now. The only issue I have is the car tends to follow every dint and rut in the road... slow lane on motorways is impossible due to the deep grooves cut by endless lorries. That's my excuse officer.

I've had coilovers on many cars in the past and have rarely adjusted them. Unless you are going to use the car for serious competition I can see no advantage to coilovers, except the kudos which comes with being able to say PSS10...

Stick to 17"s, too if you're after good handling and not just improved looks.
mik.

 

[angry]

ORIGINAL: ubertub

I've gone for the H&R springs from 9Meister (cheapest supplier I could find) and the HDs with extra front thread from Carnewal. Car is lowered about 30mm. I had the geometry set up by Colin at 9M, which made a great difference. I had complained about the C4 being too understeery for my driving style and Colin adjusted the suspension to suit. The car feels very well balanced now. The only issue I have is the car tends to follow every dint and rut in the road... slow lane on motorways is impossible due to the deep grooves cut by endless lorries. That's my excuse officer.

I've had coilovers on many cars in the past and have rarely adjusted them. Unless you are going to use the car for serious competition I can see no advantage to coilovers, except the kudos which comes with being able to say PSS10...

Stick to 17"s, too if you're after good handling and not just improved looks.
mik.

Totally agree,my car is very uprated to the standard set-up,but still soft compared to others ive seen,but its not held the car back from passing cars with much harder set-up,in the bends on track.
I certainly wouldnt faf around adjusting.
30mm is a little low and to get the geo set up for that hieght is what is probably causing the tramlining.
Mine is dropped 20mm and doesnt tramline much(also running prefered 17s)
Dan

 

[LeoSayer]

I've got a H&R coilover kit on my C2 which was supplied and fitted by JZM. It's a good compromise for road and track use and I'm happy. Handling and grip are superb on 16" or 18" wheels! The suspension is stiff, but compliant enough to handle all types of mid-corner bumps with skipping about, like you get in a 964RS for example.

I wanted a tried and tested 993 specific kit, which I got. If you mix and match parts then there is a risk that you might get something which the fitter has trouble with or isn't suitable for your car.

Also consider whether your fitter supplies the kit or not. If they supply then you can confidently go back to them (and only them) for fixing problems, if you supplied it, problems with the kit may become tricky to resolve.

Also, budget a few £££ for replacing worn out or broken parts that the fitter will inevitably discover during the fitting.

 

[ach]

Hi, my question is to those who have KWs.
In the product description I see that they all low the car for 25-40 mm. I have 993 4S which is already lowered.
Is it really true that KW can not be installed without further lowering the car?

Thank you

Andrew

 

[tim993]

Hi ach

Truth is, I don't know the answer to that, but hope these further comments may be of assistance to you:

I believe my car is running a little lower than standard for a TT, now I have the KW's installed, but at the upper end of the range of adjustment and 'above' where KW recommend, apparently. Though I did not measure the before and after (silly me!), I don't think it looks much lower than before, to be honest.

I could measue the gap at a point of your choosing so you could compare that to you car, if that would help? I'd quite like to know the answer myself. My garage floor is dead flat, so it should be a an accurate guide.

I did have one of Gert Carnewals front scrape bars fitted at the same time, but that was more because of the prevailance of dangerous speed humps / steep inclines to garage forecourts etc.

I will write up my findings with the KW kit shortly, after I have done a few more miles, however my initial feelings are that the car has been totally transformed and I can live with the slightly firmer ride at low speeds. See also posts on 911uk

tim

 

[ach]

Thank you Tim.
I am travelling now and will be back home next week.
I will measure the gap and will let you know the results and then you can check yours. I assume we both have 18" turbo wheels on our cars to have the measures with the same base...

 

[tim993]

Hi ach. Yesterday, I had a chance to check the tyre-to-wheel-arch gap on a near identical twin of my car (Arena / TT / KW's / but lhd). His is running a wider offset (but same size tyres), so I think has been set higher to reduce risk of contact with the arch. Anyhow, using my digits as a 'feeler gauge': His car 2 fingers, mine just 1. So I guess mine is probably lower than stock. Not scientific, but it shows they can be set so the car is not scraping the tarmac! Will get a precise measure shortly...

tim

 

[RichardLW]

my C4S has a full turbo setup with the thicker rollbars 23mm and 21mm, Bilstein HD shocks, M030 springs and a strut brace too. It is approximately 30mm lower than standard - as you would expect - and over rough roads is way too hard with shocks being transmitted right through the cabin. On a smooth surface it is brilliant though and rolls very little through corners. If I was not selling the car within the next few days, I would take the strut brace off and let a little more flexibility into the car.

 

[ach]

Richard, what you describe is what I do not want to happen with the new suspension set up... I would really want to leave the "softness' of the ride I have with the standard (on 4S) suspension, but to add more precision in the corners (if it is at all possible...)

 

[tim993]

Richard - Maybe you should just get standard Porsche Monroes and have a full geo done by a decent garage? I am personally preferring the KW's to the Monroes I had before, but they were old, so anything was going to be better! I am also less worried by the low speed ride on badly maintained roads as I did not buy a Porsche for it to feel good on these surfaces and generally avoid them anyway, as you can't have fun. In fact the only thing that does ride well on these is my Landrover, but it's no Porsche substitute... <lol>. It's the sweeping A / B roads and a decent Motorway ride that I was after, plus good body control during cornering esp when you encounter a bump or ridge.
Best of luck
tim

 

[RichardLW]

ORIGINAL: tim993

Richard - Maybe you should just get standard Porsche Monroes and have a full geo done by a decent garage? I am personally preferring the KW's to the Monroes I had before, but they were old, so anything was going to be better! I am also less worried by the low speed ride on badly maintained roads as I did not buy a Porsche for it to feel good on these surfaces and generally avoid them anyway, as you can't have fun. In fact the only thing that does ride well on these is my Landrover, but it's no Porsche substitute... <lol>. It's the sweeping A / B roads and a decent Motorway ride that I was after, plus good body control during cornering esp when you encounter a bump or ridge.
Best of luck
tim

The mistake was the springs I think and I should have gone for either M033 or H&R. The geometry is also well off standard being setup for trackdays rather than the road and this doesn't help. 18" wheels add to the issue too. However, it is possible to scare yourself pretty well witless on a long tightening high speed bend where the car just hangs on and on far beyond it should - just so long as you keep your toe in anyway.....