hiya all, although very happy with my 944s2[1990], i am considering a late 944turbo/se but keep finding myself drawn to the 968s on p/heads, i intend to spend a good amount on the turbo but have realized for a bit more i could get a very nice 968 but not a club sport, as i need her as a daily driver, what would be the better choice? i know the 944 but torn between 944 and 968, any pointers please, looking to change early new year, thanks jason p
944turbo vs 968 what to buy? advice please!
- Thread starter jasonp
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968CSReading
New member
Hi
Ive never driven a 944 so I suppose you need to drive a 968 and see what you think.
There are some really nice examples out there at the moment but the black sport at £7250 looks nice because its had most of the major weak points of the 968 sorted and the cams have been inspected which is very important.
I really like the Silver Sport too. If it was my money I would be looking at them both.
Im sure Big Dave will be along soon he owns a 944 and 968 so he will be able to offer some good advice.
Worth looking at the 968uk website too, the forum is excellent.
Ive never driven a 944 so I suppose you need to drive a 968 and see what you think.
There are some really nice examples out there at the moment but the black sport at £7250 looks nice because its had most of the major weak points of the 968 sorted and the cams have been inspected which is very important.
I really like the Silver Sport too. If it was my money I would be looking at them both.
Im sure Big Dave will be along soon he owns a 944 and 968 so he will be able to offer some good advice.
Worth looking at the 968uk website too, the forum is excellent.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
For my tuppenceworth, it's not a decision between 944 or 968 at all. [8|]
If you want a turbo get a turbo, and spend loads modifying it. If you want a 16V car then a decent S2 is the match of a ropey 968 anyway, with a decat and chip they are pretty equal. A well-sorted 968 carries a premium over an S2 because only because it's a little newer.
Unless you really have a huge preference for the looks of either, then it's about whether the car's a good one or not.
If you want a turbo get a turbo, and spend loads modifying it. If you want a 16V car then a decent S2 is the match of a ropey 968 anyway, with a decat and chip they are pretty equal. A well-sorted 968 carries a premium over an S2 because only because it's a little newer.
Unless you really have a huge preference for the looks of either, then it's about whether the car's a good one or not.
appletonn
New member
Daily driver? 968 every time, as long as it's a good 'un!
Both are virtually identicaal chassis wise (944 S3 anyone?!), but that 3l n/a engine is a corker, especially if enhanced slightly - Peter (PJS917) or Big Dave are the best guys to give you the inside line on that.
That said, you can't beat a bit of booost!
Biased, moi?!
Both are virtually identicaal chassis wise (944 S3 anyone?!), but that 3l n/a engine is a corker, especially if enhanced slightly - Peter (PJS917) or Big Dave are the best guys to give you the inside line on that.
That said, you can't beat a bit of booost!
Biased, moi?!
Neil Haughey
New member
Good post Nick, I have both an S2 (in bits soon to be a race car) and a 968. TBH the really odd thing about the 968 is how they managed to change sooo much of the car but end up with something that's basically like an S2 +10%. The good thing is IMHO they improved the S2 in all the right areas, the bad thing is they almost certainly cost more to run longer term as many of the enhancements unfortunately cause problems of their own. The turbo is a very very different car. TBH I am not sure how I feel about the turbo, being in one it was odd how out of the 968/S2/turbo the turbo has easily the least refined and odd sounding engine yet at the same time it has a dimension to it when on boost neither of the other cars can match. IMHO its like old 911's you really need to go in one and see how you feel about it. You either fall for its charms or you don't.
I agree with Nick if one could only afford to have one car and you wanted a front engined pork as your DD, 968 every time, it will do all the boring stuff effortlessly and must be probably the least stressful car to drive quickly cross country ever made.
BTW after several months with the 968 the whole looks thing does wear off to some extent, as an example I now feel the side skirts look like an afterthought and the S2/turbo front end looks much better. I don't mind the headlights at all and are fairly attracted to them now, the back end just looks wonderful though and those rear quarter windows and double lip door seals result in much less wind noise then in the 944.
I agree with Nick if one could only afford to have one car and you wanted a front engined pork as your DD, 968 every time, it will do all the boring stuff effortlessly and must be probably the least stressful car to drive quickly cross country ever made.
BTW after several months with the 968 the whole looks thing does wear off to some extent, as an example I now feel the side skirts look like an afterthought and the S2/turbo front end looks much better. I don't mind the headlights at all and are fairly attracted to them now, the back end just looks wonderful though and those rear quarter windows and double lip door seals result in much less wind noise then in the 944.
sawood12
New member
Well I love my turbo and I can't see any N/A car really floating my boat again. The biggest gripe from people about the turbo is the lag, but I don't find it a problem at all, even in traffic. Sure you always have to be looking and planning ahead to ensure you are in the right gear if you want to jump into a gap in the traffic in the next lane, but you soon get used to that and will be doing it without thinking. It really doesn't bother me know, and of course the sheer acceleration you have at your disposal when on boost really makes for easy overtaking. I'm quite a cautious overtaker, especially on country lanes, but in the turbo I seem to spend alot of my time on the wrong side of the road! The later 250 turbos are a little heavier and laggier than the early 220 ones, i've never driven one so can't really say by how much, but ultimately my turbo does everything I want it to do - it is perfectly fine for the traffic jam into work and even better when the road opens up.
I am a bit biased and i've never owned a 968 so can't advise on what each is like to live with on a day to day basis. But either way i'm sure you'll not be dissapointed whichever way you go. The only thing to warn you about is that with turbo ownership, buying the car is only the first step. You will get the boost bug and you will want to sell your wife and kids for that next suite of mods. So if anyone want one wife (8 months pregnant) and a three year old for a decent price then PM me!!
I am a bit biased and i've never owned a 968 so can't advise on what each is like to live with on a day to day basis. But either way i'm sure you'll not be dissapointed whichever way you go. The only thing to warn you about is that with turbo ownership, buying the car is only the first step. You will get the boost bug and you will want to sell your wife and kids for that next suite of mods. So if anyone want one wife (8 months pregnant) and a three year old for a decent price then PM me!!
Big Dave
New member
If youve got an S2 now, then the next "logical" step is to the "evolution" of the breed , the 968...
This is the final + some say the best of the front engined cars..
Ive owned both 944S2 and 968,s...
And for my money ide get a 968 as a daily driver any day...I had a 968 cabrio for around 4 years as a DD... Loved it.....[
][][][]
Yes they are a bit more ££ but i think they are well worth it...
Im not a fan of any turbo car,,, + ive owned a few Vauxhall, Nissan, Volvo, all performance versions,,, [ not 944turbo,s though.]...Just dont like the power delivery...
If you are used to the spannering of the S2 then the 68 is no real difference, all the underpinnings are the same, with a few minor tweeks....
BUT PLEASE make sure the 968 you do eventually purchase has had the cam CHAIN + cams either replaced or inspected recently..As well as the timing belts..OR itl be ££££££££££££ .....
Also the fuel + brake lines are begining to perish, another ££££££ job ..
They dont seem as prone to rust as the S2,s are....Especially the cills...
Either way have fun with whatever you purchase......
This is the final + some say the best of the front engined cars..
Ive owned both 944S2 and 968,s...
And for my money ide get a 968 as a daily driver any day...I had a 968 cabrio for around 4 years as a DD... Loved it.....[
][][][]Yes they are a bit more ££ but i think they are well worth it...
Im not a fan of any turbo car,,, + ive owned a few Vauxhall, Nissan, Volvo, all performance versions,,, [ not 944turbo,s though.]...Just dont like the power delivery...
If you are used to the spannering of the S2 then the 68 is no real difference, all the underpinnings are the same, with a few minor tweeks....
BUT PLEASE make sure the 968 you do eventually purchase has had the cam CHAIN + cams either replaced or inspected recently..As well as the timing belts..OR itl be ££££££££££££ .....
Also the fuel + brake lines are begining to perish, another ££££££ job ..
They dont seem as prone to rust as the S2,s are....Especially the cills...
Either way have fun with whatever you purchase......
Mr968
Member
jasonp, you are in exactly the same situation I was in around 8 years ago, I had had 3 944s and then currently owned an S2, what was the next upgrade? find a lower mileage S2, go for a Turbo but it would have to be the 250 to be of any real benefit, or stick with normally aspirated and go for the 968 for the higher power.
In the end the missus said "go for the one that looks the youngest"
So that swayed me, I did my research and bought a Sport.
Today the 968 still looks as fresh as ever and as it's quite a rare car to see on the road so people are stunned when I tell them that the car has done 125,000 miles and is 16 years old.
I've now had 3 968s, this last one for 5 years, the longest I've ever owned a car.
And here's a gratuitous shot of the engine bay.
In the end the missus said "go for the one that looks the youngest"
So that swayed me, I did my research and bought a Sport.
Today the 968 still looks as fresh as ever and as it's quite a rare car to see on the road so people are stunned when I tell them that the car has done 125,000 miles and is 16 years old.
I've now had 3 968s, this last one for 5 years, the longest I've ever owned a car.
And here's a gratuitous shot of the engine bay.
James_G
New member
Yep, if I had my time again then I'd have a 968. They're far more money than a sorted S2 for some unknown reason, but for me getting another 944 wouldn't seem like progress. Plus I like the idea of the reduction in road noise and the fact that a 968 would feel a touch more sophisticated (allegedly). Finally it's an easy way to get a clubsport steering wheel and mirrors!
Things to dislike would be 6 speed gearbox and the fact that if you didn't buy a CS everybody would ask you why you didn't buy a CS.
Things to dislike would be 6 speed gearbox and the fact that if you didn't buy a CS everybody would ask you why you didn't buy a CS.
968CSReading
New member
Even though I had a CS they are vastly over rated and over priced. In terms of on road/track ability a well sorted coupe (like stu's) or sport will be just as good or better than a CS, esp if the CS is on tired suspension/brakes etc.
I think with the CS is a name / Icon thing but at the age they are at now condition is more important.
I think with the CS is a name / Icon thing but at the age they are at now condition is more important.
Chrishazle
Active member
Like many others replying to your post, I'm a fan of the 968 - I've had my tip coupe (94L, 60K miles, one previous owner, my 3rd Porsche) for 11 years now and love it. Previously I had a 944S - which I did not like - and my first was a 1983 944 lux.
Although I don't use mine as a DD, I'm sure it would be fine - comfortable, quick and practical. We've often done the Tesco run in it and it's amazing how much shopping it can swallow! Even went to Bordeaux a few years back, quite a few cases of wine coming back and no problem cruising at high speed with the sunroof panel in the back and a useable rear view mirror!! Personally I like the tip transmission and drive it as clutchless manual - and now our DD / shopping trolley is a Merc C estate with similar transmission!
Servicing has been pretty cheap - around £250-300pa - but tyres do not seem to last long (and I don't squeal rubber!). She's on her 4th set of rears and 3rd of fronts, and at about £100 a corner that's a lot. Originals were Yokahamas as were second set (at about 20K), went to Contis on ATS recommendation (not good!) and now on Bridgestones which seem OK. All were / are M compound rubber. Only big bill (so far, touch wood) was the 6 year cambelt change - I think that service was more like £500 at a main agent.
Good luck with the decision and search!
Although I don't use mine as a DD, I'm sure it would be fine - comfortable, quick and practical. We've often done the Tesco run in it and it's amazing how much shopping it can swallow! Even went to Bordeaux a few years back, quite a few cases of wine coming back and no problem cruising at high speed with the sunroof panel in the back and a useable rear view mirror!! Personally I like the tip transmission and drive it as clutchless manual - and now our DD / shopping trolley is a Merc C estate with similar transmission!
Servicing has been pretty cheap - around £250-300pa - but tyres do not seem to last long (and I don't squeal rubber!). She's on her 4th set of rears and 3rd of fronts, and at about £100 a corner that's a lot. Originals were Yokahamas as were second set (at about 20K), went to Contis on ATS recommendation (not good!) and now on Bridgestones which seem OK. All were / are M compound rubber. Only big bill (so far, touch wood) was the 6 year cambelt change - I think that service was more like £500 at a main agent.
Good luck with the decision and search!
Neil Haughey
New member
This last post makes a good point, IMHO you are much more likely to find a decent 968 then a similar condition 944. I was looking on the net the other day to see how much a nice S2 is worth, problem is even in the diddy little pictures you see I couldn't find a decent S2. Even the ones said to be puka had wrecked seats etc. very sad. My 968 for example has a stack of bills from the PO for something crazy like 12 or 13 grand. How many 944 owners these days are going to spank a couple of grand at a time on repairs and renovations? This will be the biggest problem and you will probably find that like for like the same condition 968 and turbo will cost about the same.
..and yes the cills on the 968 do rust, I have cleaned mine out and will be cavity waxing them to stop them getting any worse. Also the area behind the front headlights, basically areas ppl just don't see are all rust traps. The fuel and brake lines all rot and need replacing, but in a bizarre twist the 968 fuel lines cost hardly anything to replace. Seams on the underside also need treatment etc. etc. I am sure there are still ppl out there that believe 968's don't rust.
..and yes the cills on the 968 do rust, I have cleaned mine out and will be cavity waxing them to stop them getting any worse. Also the area behind the front headlights, basically areas ppl just don't see are all rust traps. The fuel and brake lines all rot and need replacing, but in a bizarre twist the 968 fuel lines cost hardly anything to replace. Seams on the underside also need treatment etc. etc. I am sure there are still ppl out there that believe 968's don't rust.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Strange, but as it's the same bodywork why would they rust less? I guess that they are a few years newer and you can't see the obvious outside signs with the side skirts, but I'd be dropping the camera phone into the sills and treating them now rather than later. [8|]
Mr968
Member
Hi sc0tty,
I have done my share of modding but I try to be discrete about it, I used to do concours events but when I was getting marked down for things like "seats look too new" I stopped doing them. Here are some pictures from an event a couple of years ago.
http://www.968uk.com/concours-preparation.php
The car is often used on the track and here it is at Oulton Park with an old number plate I used to have.
Some more piccies on here.
http://968uk.com/professional-photography.htm
It is usually driven with enthusiasm wherever it goes.[]
I have done my share of modding but I try to be discrete about it, I used to do concours events but when I was getting marked down for things like "seats look too new" I stopped doing them. Here are some pictures from an event a couple of years ago.
http://www.968uk.com/concours-preparation.php
The car is often used on the track and here it is at Oulton Park with an old number plate I used to have.
Some more piccies on here.
http://968uk.com/professional-photography.htm
It is usually driven with enthusiasm wherever it goes.[
]
David Hooper
New member
All good points chaps and having just spent some time on my new project the rust issue is timely. My old CS was an import so I never really saw any rust. I think that this car if left to routine servicing instead of now being looked at by an enthusiastic owner, would be in trouble in the not too distant future. It's also spent nearly all it's life in the Bristol area near the coast.
I have removed front PU, front wing, side sill covers, wheel arch liners, and rear PU.
Problem areas are headlamp bowls filling with crap if drain hole not kept clear and the bowl itself going rusty. This is a bolt in replacement pressing so not too bad.
Off side front the oil cooler mounting brackets and pipes get hit and my CS had some rust there also. The oil cooler duct gets crap sitting at the bottom but can be cleaned out without removing the front PU.
The stenghing plate between the PU and the undertray usually shears its bolts but thats an easy fix.
All the mounting brackets from PU to wheelarch liner rotted and all screws and spin nuts gone.
The wings all OK behind the liners. Watch where the liner doesn't protect.
In front of the front jacking point hidden by the short sill cover needed a good clean and treatment.
All the fixing screwbolts/spin nuts/washers for the side sill covers rusted and needed replacing. The brackets that hold the sill covers on needed scrub and treat.
Sills were not too bad just scrub up and treat. You can spray into the sills through the mounting holes for the clips in the side sill covers.
The rear jacking point area again needed clean and treat.
Rear PU brackets get some crap so a good going over.
Rear wings very good with just scrub and treat.
The fuel lines and brake lines are very bad over the torsion tube but are not dear for full front to rear from OPC. As I'm going to polybush the rear anyway its a no brainer to do those at the same time as torsion tube out.
The torsion tube end plates plus the spring plates are well furred up and the rubber mounts are coming away from their metal. I will be replacing those at the same time. Not cheap[]
All in all I am spending more time cleaning, painting and treating than on my old CS. The time factor is the main thing. The rust isn't a problem now and, as I said, won't be now I have the car.
As for the driving difference, well the 968 is a great drivers car and the CS is what I would really have liked again. Mainly because I hate electrics and it's less to go wrong! I had a 944S 16v which was great and got me into the whole 944/968 thing as I could feel the build quality over other classics I'd owned.
My old 968CS was far more sprightly than this Sport and you can feel the weight over the CS. My old CS didn't have the sunroof either.
Looking at all the bl**dy wires, motors, relays, rear wiper, solenoids, rear seats and belts, I'm surprised the CS was only 50kg lighter! Theres even a flipping motor to open the rear tailgate for goodness sake! When I've finished it if anyone wants to swap for a CS I'm listening!
I do like to see the 944's being looked after as they seem to be going at quite a rate. Some of the Cat d & even Cat c write offs are repairable but of course there's more money in spares than repairing and selling them as a whole.
Mine would have been broken up for the sake of a front PU, wing and headlight assembly! Mad at 70k miles on a 94L.
Whichever you go for you'll be sure of plenty of help from either camp in the club.
Cheers
Dave
I have removed front PU, front wing, side sill covers, wheel arch liners, and rear PU.
Problem areas are headlamp bowls filling with crap if drain hole not kept clear and the bowl itself going rusty. This is a bolt in replacement pressing so not too bad.
Off side front the oil cooler mounting brackets and pipes get hit and my CS had some rust there also. The oil cooler duct gets crap sitting at the bottom but can be cleaned out without removing the front PU.
The stenghing plate between the PU and the undertray usually shears its bolts but thats an easy fix.
All the mounting brackets from PU to wheelarch liner rotted and all screws and spin nuts gone.
The wings all OK behind the liners. Watch where the liner doesn't protect.
In front of the front jacking point hidden by the short sill cover needed a good clean and treatment.
All the fixing screwbolts/spin nuts/washers for the side sill covers rusted and needed replacing. The brackets that hold the sill covers on needed scrub and treat.
Sills were not too bad just scrub up and treat. You can spray into the sills through the mounting holes for the clips in the side sill covers.
The rear jacking point area again needed clean and treat.
Rear PU brackets get some crap so a good going over.
Rear wings very good with just scrub and treat.
The fuel lines and brake lines are very bad over the torsion tube but are not dear for full front to rear from OPC. As I'm going to polybush the rear anyway its a no brainer to do those at the same time as torsion tube out.
The torsion tube end plates plus the spring plates are well furred up and the rubber mounts are coming away from their metal. I will be replacing those at the same time. Not cheap[
]All in all I am spending more time cleaning, painting and treating than on my old CS. The time factor is the main thing. The rust isn't a problem now and, as I said, won't be now I have the car.
As for the driving difference, well the 968 is a great drivers car and the CS is what I would really have liked again. Mainly because I hate electrics and it's less to go wrong! I had a 944S 16v which was great and got me into the whole 944/968 thing as I could feel the build quality over other classics I'd owned.
My old 968CS was far more sprightly than this Sport and you can feel the weight over the CS. My old CS didn't have the sunroof either.
Looking at all the bl**dy wires, motors, relays, rear wiper, solenoids, rear seats and belts, I'm surprised the CS was only 50kg lighter! Theres even a flipping motor to open the rear tailgate for goodness sake! When I've finished it if anyone wants to swap for a CS I'm listening!
I do like to see the 944's being looked after as they seem to be going at quite a rate. Some of the Cat d & even Cat c write offs are repairable but of course there's more money in spares than repairing and selling them as a whole.
Mine would have been broken up for the sake of a front PU, wing and headlight assembly! Mad at 70k miles on a 94L.
Whichever you go for you'll be sure of plenty of help from either camp in the club.
Cheers
Dave
Neil Haughey
New member
Certainly not aimed at you Dave. ISTR several years ago the same was said about the 944 S2 and turbo. Basically just seems to be age related, I expect to see many 968's with rusty cills in the coming years. The cill and bottom of the rear quarter rusts from the inside out on series 2 944 shells, the 968 seems to be the same and I can't really see any reason why it wouldn't. The one good thing though is that all that plastic on the 968 does stop the bottom of all the arches getting stone chipped to death and rusting through. I don't really understand why they didn't just make the drain hole at the end of the cill much bigger and or point it down rather then back, or better still have a series of drain holes in the bottom of the cill. IMHO the problem is caused by dampness in that area not escaping, mine was actually full of dirt, it took me about 2 hours to clean out both sides, was a bit of a PITA really but has to be done.
Something else I forgot to say earlier, do you like elephant ears or aero mirrors? I love the aero or cup mirrors as some call them. I know many ppl will not like to admit to it but a lot of the 968 vs 944 thing does come down to looks.
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