944 as a project car?

[spidermonk]

Hi all,

I've had a soft spot for 944's for years and am considering buying a 944 to return to concours condition, which will live mainly as a garage queen, to be taken out only when the sun shines.

However I know very little about car mechanics and although I've done a few basic courses, these have only shown how little I actually know about cars. So I fully expect to hand it over to a garage every few months for the majority of jobs and restore it a little at a time.

My questions are is this a valid way of doing up a car, or am I just going to be throwing away good money after bad? I'm wondering if I should just buy a fully restored model but I'm concerned it won't feel as special as one I've over seen the restoration of.

From what I've read the S2 seems to be the car to go for, fairly quick and less problematic (and hence cheaper to restore) than the turbo, but I'm worried that the performance may not be as inspiring. For reference my daily drive is a 300+ bhp 350z, and although I'm not expecting a 20 year old S2 to feel as quick as this, I'm still looking for an entertaining drive.

Thanks for any help or advice you can offer.

 

[GPF]

ORIGINAL: spidermonk

Hi all,

I've had a soft spot for 944's for years and am considering buying a 944 to return to concours condition, which will live mainly as a garage queen, to be taken out only when the sun shines. 

However I know very little about car mechanics and although I've done a few basic courses, these have only shown how little I actually know about cars. So I fully expect to hand it over to a garage every few months for the majority of jobs and restore it a little at a time.

My questions are is this a valid way of doing up a car, or am I just going to be throwing away good money after bad?  I'm wondering if I should just buy a fully restored model but I'm concerned it won't feel as special as one I've over seen the restoration of.

From what I've read the S2 seems to be the car to go for, fairly quick and less problematic (and hence cheaper to restore) than the turbo, but I'm worried that the performance may not be as inspiring.  For reference my daily drive is a 300+ bhp 350z, and although I'm not expecting a 20 year old S2 to feel as quick as this, I'm still looking for an entertaining drive. 

Thanks for any help or advice you can offer. 

Hi mate, welcome to the forum - I'm sure you will get a lot of advice and some of it might even good!

Restoring a 944 to concours is potentially an expensive project in that it will be very easy to spend more than the car is worth, at least at present, so picking the right model is going to be as important as getting the right example.

A Turbo may involve a little more in the restoration, but the value of a tip top Turbo will be higher than a comparable S2, and that gap is only going to increase in the future as S2's will suffer more from price competition with 968's. Given that a restoration of either will involve all the same things as far as body, suspension, interior and most aspects of the engine & drivetrain etc, the cost will probably not be that much different, so a Turbo may make more sense financially.

I'm also not sure that a Turbo is actually any more problematic than an S2 - they can both be relatively trouble free. Yes there are some extra bits on a Turbo, but the engines are very strong and the top ends are less complicated. There are some more pipes and vacuum tubes, but cheap and easy to replace and as long as the turbo and wastegate are in good order, or replaced, the reliability should be absolutely fine.

As for entertainment, I'm sure an S2 is very nice to drive - handling will be just like a standard Turbo of course - and fairly quick. But they will never give you the performance buzz of a Turbo, and there is little scope to change that, whereas it's very easy to get a Turbo to 300bhp. You can go much further than that of course, but 300 is an easy step.

Equally, an S2 will be easier to drive quickly - but only because you need to be in the correct gear in the Turbo to avoid lag.

At the end of the day, they are both fine cars, as are the other models of course.

 

[earlybay]

Having just bought an S2 Id say they are a pretty entertaining drive ! I had a 993 previously so have come from a fairly powerful car ...

Id say with prices of 944's right now you could pretty nearly buy a concorse car to start with ...

 

[spidermonk]

Thank you to you both for your replies.

GPF you raised some great points I had not fully considered, especially regarding the financial side. Although I am under no illusion that I'll be paying much more out than I will ever expect to be returned from the car, it would be nice to know that I am minimizing my loses by obtaining the best overall value from the car.

I will have a look and if possible test drive each model to get an idea of how they perform, in all honesty I've no intention of pushing the car once restored and it will always be driven with the greatest respect, I just like to know that power is there.

As you say Earlybay the prices are very reasonable at present, so it may be the more sensible decision to buy the best I can find. As my partner always says when she's looking at horses, never buy trouble as it finds you quickly enough.

Thanks again for the replies you've certainly given me more to think about.

 

[J4CKO]

If you get all the work done by garages you will be in for some big bills, if you can afford it then that is all well and good but for me the main thing is the satisfaction of doing something myself, if you can afford garage bills you can afford the tools to do most of the stuff yourself.

 

[edh]

Sounds to me that you should be aiming to buy a good one that doesn't need too much. Try to find one owned by an enthusiast who will show you exactly what is wrong with the car, and how all the usual major issues have been addressed.

Most dealers selling these cars will know next to nothing about them.

Don't believe the fiction that they don't rust..and a shiny one can hide an awful lot of rust...

Although in some ways it might be better to buy a cheap one, learn what goes wrong, then buy one to keep.

 

[Kongsodoken]

having almost completed my 1 year restoration project I can offer the following advice

Buy the best one you can....
Decide on your restoration budget.....then triple it
Only do it for the enjoyment of doing it ...not for the end result
Try everything yourself....you will surprised at what you can do with help from the forum
most of all....Have Fun

 

[Frenchy]

With respect a decent modded Turbo would more than hold it's own and would probably see your "rice rocket" off on a track []
My advice to your good self would be to buy a very good example that just needs some tidying, check then check again the bodywork for rust sills, bottom of front wings, rear suspension pick up points, rear fuel lines as all can be expensive to get right.
The mechanics on these cars are solid enough if they have been cared for, with your limited knowledge get someone to take a look with you, leave the rose tinted shades at home, these things are 20+ years old now.
Buy a good one and you will love it, be it an S2 or Turbo, the S2 is a great all rounder with plenty of power and if you are not after scary grins great, whereas a Turbo in good fettle will make you grin like nothing else and may give you the odd fright []
Overall buy a good example that needs some cosmetic tidying, saving you heartache and bills (been there done it Honest !)
Then enjoy they are both great and if you just want to cruise around with some excess power go for the S2, if you want somthing to Frighten you and give you the WTF grin get a Turbo.

 

[Diver944]

In standard form my Turbo and S2 were pretty much identical in outright speed and over a number of years the maintenance cost averaged out roughly the same. A modified Turbo is a different story and will blow the S2 away but drain your wallet at an alarming rate []

If you are looking to make a concours car that is just pretty to look at then either of them will cost pretty much the same. The bodywork is identical and the only model specific parts are under the skin. Therefore you just need to find an example that looks the best and to hell with the mechanical bits