86 turbo track suspension (without reindex)

[nicksonmsport]

after looking into fitting gaz or kw coilovers, it seems a reindex is a must when fitting these coilovers. my goal for the minute is to get this turbo on track this year without huge cost or labour times. fitting a set of kw or gaz, is not only going to cost a lot in purchase price, but then a large amount of time (which i dont have) to reindex and properly set up.

can anyone recommend the best alternative suspension kit to give better on track handling. the spax kits look ok for the money, and give front ride height adjustment as well as damping. although the kits seem to say ''excluding s2 and turbo''??

any other recommendations to get the car on track asap, i will upgrade to kw in the future, so please avoid recommending the kw, it has to be a kit to bolt on without reindex!

many thanks
nick

 

[Copperman05]

Although a reindex may be better overall, I dont see it being a must considering the amount that have been done without, Chris at Centre Gravity seems to be an expert on suspension geometry and is happy to fit the kw's without re-indexing. It would seem prudent to me to fit kw now and reindex later as its still going to be much better than what you have at present. What are you expecting to gain from a spax over non indexed kw? Spax seems a good value system but if you intend to fit kw in the long term I really dont see the point in them.


Edd

 

[Cater_Racer]

We race with KW c/o and no re-index. The car has a higher roll centre without the re-index, and we will be asking Kevin @ emc to do the job next winter.

Go for the KW's now, and re-index later.

 

[edh]

See your other thread - if you can set the rear ride height with the torsion bars / spring plates to where you want, then no need to re-index.

If you're racing & chasing the last seconds (..or tenths) then you will want the optimum setup, which is likely to include running much lower. (Too low isn't great for the front wishbone ball joint though)

As you have your own workshop, I wouldn't have thought reindexing would be a major issue anyway. Cut some holes in the rear quarters for the torsion bars to come out & the job is much quicker.

I see there's a set of s/h bilsteins for sale at the moment as well..

 

[nicksonmsport]

yes i can do the reindex myself, i just really dont have the time, and hence why i wanted a quick solution of bolting suspension on and away we go! i am so busy with customer work that i hardly get a chance to even breath on my own projects, and so just want to get the car to a basic spec so i can just get it on track this season!

i really would prefer the gaz or kw options as i know they are the only real option for track use! if i can get away without reindex and then do it at a later date then i may just go for them, but from what i have read in many previous topics there seems to be mixed opinions on weather you have to have reindex or not!

can you get the car low enough to set the preload on the helper springs without reindex then, i thought lowering the car to max on the eccentrics would throw out the geometry, which isnt ideal either.

i have been offered the bilstein cups on ebay, they do look like good kit, but tbh if i can buy a brand new set of gaz for £800 odd then to spend over £1k on second hand items seems a slight risk. these coilovers as far as i know also have no adjustability for damping/rebound.

 

[edh]

ORIGINAL: nicksonmsport

...but from what i have read in many previous topics there seems to be mixed opinions on weather you have to have reindex or not!

can you get the car low enough to set the preload on the helper springs without reindex then, i thought lowering the car to max on the eccentrics would throw out the geometry, which isnt ideal either.

Thar's how my car is set up

According to EMC and Promax (and KW), it will work. Rear geo isn't a problem. Unless you want it race-car low.

Gaz @ £800 seems a no-brainer (is that standard gaz, or EMC "specials"?)

 

[Jonny944CS]

ORIGINAL: nicksonmsport

can you get the car low enough to set the preload on the helper springs without reindex then, i thought lowering the car to max on the eccentrics would throw out the geometry, which isnt ideal either.

the process is:
- Measure your current ride height
- Lower the car as far as possible on the eccentrics ~ 20-25mm
- Fit the coil-overs and adjust the spring seats to bring the ride height back to where you started

The geometry should not be affected as the eccentric ride-height adjusters are completely separate from the geometry adjusters and your ride height when finished should be the same as when you started.

As Edd and Gerry mentioned, re-indexing only becomes really essential if you want to run a lower ride height - in that case you'll probably need to revisit the geometry anyway.

 

[nicksonmsport]

right, just spent half hour on the phone to alex at emc, got the whole process understood. i will be drilling holes in the sills for torsion bar access, gaz kit will be ordered and then i will reindex the car on a saturday morning! sorted.

torsion bar reindex seems to be much simpler than everyone makes out, and with the sill holes drilled its a very simple process, so my mind is made up and i will be fitting coils to the car.

i will soon post up a project thread on the car so you guys can see the build progress. and hopefully the car will be on some trackdays this year!

thanks for your help and advise on the matter
nick

 

[Hilux]

Premier benefit of KW is that you can run quite hard rates on the road and the diverter valve doesnt trash your nice new GAZ valves when you hit a pothole. If its a track based car its less an issue

The car has a higher roll centre without the re-index

Yup

 

[944 man]

ORIGINAL: nicksonmsport

right, just spent half hour on the phone to alex at emc, got the whole process understood. i will be drilling holes in the sills for torsion bar access, gaz kit will be ordered and then i will reindex the car on a saturday morning! sorted.

torsion bar reindex seems to be much simpler than everyone makes out, and with the sill holes drilled its a very simple process, so my mind is made up and i will be fitting coils to the car.

i will soon post up a project thread on the car so you guys can see the build progress. and hopefully the car will be on some trackdays this year!

thanks for your help and advise on the matter
nick

Errmmm.... With the holes its reasonably easy, as I described. Without the 60mm hole drilled through the cars bodywork, which most people dont have or want, its a pretty substantial and difficult job.

Itll probably be far from easy the first time too, even with the holes drilled. This is why I suggested taking it to EMC to get it drilled and adjusted the first time, because theyre usually siezed up and extremely stubborn.


Simon

 

[944 man]

ORIGINAL: 944 man

Id say: take it to EMC and let Alex struggle with the siezed up fasterners and torsion bars and get him to drill the holes in the rear wing bottom. Now you will be able to re-index yourself if you need to, without having to remove the gearbox or anything, withdrawing the bars out through the holes. It takes about thirty minutes when everythings free.


Simon

Actually, I said it on the other thread.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Ride quality on the road with GAZ is actually pretty good, never really had a complaint myself except for the noise in the race car. I think supple tyres helps a lot here though as I run on 16" wheels and fairly low tyre pressures.

 

[Jonny944CS]

ORIGINAL: nicksonmsport

and then i will reindex the car on a saturday morning!

ORIGINAL: 944 man

Itll probably be far from easy the first time too, even with the holes drilled. This is why I suggested taking it to EMC to get it drilled and adjusted the first time, because theyre usually siezed up and extremely stubborn.

The long M12x115 bolts (holding the outer aluminium carriers to the body) have a nasty habit of welding themselves to the corroded aluminium sleeves of the rubber bush. Well worth checking these will free-up in advance if you get chance.