82mm throttle body & intake on a standard car, anyone tried it?

[paterson12]

Hello

Ive recently found myself tempted by the GT3 82mm throttle/intake for my Gen 1 Cayman S.

Is it worth it on a Cayman with a standard exhaust or is it a bit of a pointless exercise?

I appreciate that the full benifit isn't felt unless you have a decent exhaust and remap but as this is getting into the thousands I thought I'd ask if anyone has tried the GT3 throttle body/intake with the standard set up?

Joe

 

[Buddy]

Joe, I have two friends with 2005/6 Cayman S both of who have had a remap done, no throttle body change one has the Carnewal exhaust mod and the other standard exhaust, they had the remap done at Zentrum in Nottinghamshire and the cost is around £200, both said that their engines felt more powerful due to the improved response felt as increased torque, Zentrum say the power output was raised and provided figures, I know some may doubt the latter but in optimising ignition and fueling, a power increase can be found depending on how good the engine is in the first place, Porsche are said to be conservative in their power ratings ( if they say a power level then all the cars give at least that ) and obviously there will be variations and so remapping can bring a few additional BHP, a larger throttle body will flow more air at open throttle driving conditions but driving at lower revs can be a bit "lumpy" so a remap would again be necessary.

 

[paterson12]

Thank you for the reply. I know Zentrum very well as it's a five minute drive from my location, so I will contact them about a remap and see what they have to say.

I think an exhaust and remap is probably the way to go.

 

[paterson12]

Update: Contacted Zentrum. They say a remap will see a 37bhp gain (sounds very specific and optimistic to be honest) but nevertheless for a relatively small sum I think I'll try it.

 

[MrDemon]

37 bhp lol , 5 maybe, 10 on a good day.

Don't fall for NA remap speak from resellers.

engines are air movers, you need to get more air in, then get that air out. A remap will net you 10bhp at best on it's own !

best mod on a gen 1 car is removing the 2 rear cats that will net you a real gain of 10bhp and make the car feel more alive and also sound better.

to get a 40bhp gain from a gen one you need to do the TB, exhaust, vflow induction and than a remap to tie it all in.

 

[paterson12]

I did think 37bhp sounded optimistic. My twin turbo diesel Beemer struggled to gain more than that with a remap.

I still like the idea of a remap but I think getting a cat back first will be best.

Is just having the secondary cats removed on the standard exhaust adequate?

 

[MrDemon]

yep, so either a Gert modded exhaust,where he cuts them out onan exchange basis or I had a Remus at the time, very nice made and good value.

 

[paterson12]

I've heard good things about Gert as there's plenty of threads about exhausts. There's a custom exhaust company near me who can either build a new exhaust or modify mine. I'm more interested in removing the rears cats rather than have a new exhaust (mine turn out to be counter productive).

 

[Buddy]

I think I know the place you mean, JAC at Hucknall, he does good work and is quite capable of modifying or design/manufacture of a special exhaust, benefits of the mods I can't say but I'd suggest a talk with him and also another with Zentrum discussing the proposed exhaust mods relative to the remap, I haven't seen the Carnewal mod options but it would be a good idea to check out their website and talk to the exhaust guy with that as background information, he may even know more detail of it.

As for actual power output increase from any mods, it depends on how they are measured dyno or from a OBD2 reading but from Kev ( 800 Man ) he is of the opinion that the Carnewal mod and the Zentrum Remap transformed his car, another friend who just had the remap was of the same opinion but most comment that remaps improve the throttle response, Max BHP increase is rarely used but improvements in flexibility and torque are used regularly but then who knows their max torque and torque curve characteristics...

 

[paterson12]

I was actually referring to an exhaust company in Mansfield (can't remember the name) but now you've mentioned it I'll certainly take a look at JAC in Hucknull .

Im not actually after more of a soundtrack as such. Coming from a diesel, I'm more than satisfied with the standard noise. As the secondary cats aren't needed I would prefer just to have them out as I believe it would be beneficial. Maybe slight OCD tendencies I suspect!

Ive had several remap over the years and have always been impressed so im not going to rule out the possibility, even if its not huge bhp/torque gains.

 

[MrDemon]

if you drive the car correctly you will not notice a remap if done alone.

also depends if the car has sports mode also, as throttle is great on a oem car with sport mode, if not you can have sports mode added to the remap which makes the throtte less dead and then one would notice a remap.

there is a dead spot in the gen 1 car but it's a co2 hack and should not be seen in day to day driving, but people do moan (wrongly ) about it.

the 2nd dead sport is just about cured with removing the 2 rear cats.

there is lot on info on these cars and tuning , it not new , the car from 2005 and every thing has been tested to death.

the only way to get the best is, remove rear cats, vflow, TB and intake and then a remap to fuel it all correctly.

that should net you circa 345BHP, you can get more with under drive pully and manifolds but for little extra gains + lots more money/hassle.

either just delete the rear cats, or go the full hog.

we have had owners come and go with promised BHP only to get a indy rr test done and fine they have 5bhp !

this is my car on a indy RR, not the tuners, as I did it all myself of my gen 1 car.

that was a nice gain and it drove very well with it.

 

[paterson12]

Thanks for that informative reply MrDemon, I hear what you're saying!

I think after all that, I'll just have the secondary cats removed/or cat back maybe and prehaps leave the remap.

The full hog seems tempting but I'm not prepared to spend thousands on tuning. Id be pleased with 341bhp though!

 

[MrDemon]

it would cost you about £2.5k to do, so not that bad.

do the rear cat delete 1st, see how you feel, you might be 100% happy with that alone, it's a great mod.

does the car have sports mode ?

 

[paterson12]

It doesn't having the sport button/Chrono, just PASM.

 

[MrDemon]

you could look at the sprint booster vs a sport mode upgrade.

I do think a non sports mode car does lack a little in throttle response.

if you don't like the sprint booster you can always resell it, or if you do move it to another car later.

 

[paterson12]

As I've said previous, I've come from a diesel automatic so to me the throttle responce is great even without the sport button.

My only criticism is the power delivery. The Cayman seems to have flat spots and doesn't seem 'silky' smooth but I suppose it's just the nature of the beast.

 

[tcreswick]

My Gen 1 Cayman S doesn't have sport mode. My big gripe is that throttle response is lagged when you come off the clutch (I've commented about this previously).

I presume the ~3500rpm dead zone is the CO2 hack that you're talking about. I find it quite annoying, but you're right that you just learn to drive around it. Having said that, more relaxed driving around town is hampered by the lack of smooth delivery in that range. I'd be happy if a remap just dealt with that zone. More power would be nice, but really more consistent power delivery would be the major win.

I have the Carnewal exhaust so it's occurred to me that a remap would help with that too - I'm not too bothered about the overall power so not really inclined to do the TB and intake mods. I'm more likely to put coil-overs and sticky tyres on it before I modify the power plant.

So my questions:

[ol][*]What does the sport button actually change on a 987.1S that has it?[*]Can a remap alone change the throttle response? I had heard that the electronic throttle position logic was a different ECU (in the pedal box?) although clearly it's possible to improve the overall responsiveness of the engine.[*]Who should I be talking to about a remap, what should I be expecting to pay and does it require any hardware changes / how reversible is it?[/ol]

 

[ChrisW]

Very interesting Mr D ... it makes perfect sense and a good read

 

[Buddy]

1. The Porsche upgrade of sport mode can be switched on and off, a remap changes the setting permanently or until it is reset to original by another remap, at one time some firms offered a chip to swap so that you could open the ecu and swap it back.

2. Everyone I have knownwho has had a remap done whether years ago on 944's or recently on Cayman S etc has said that it smooths out the power delivery and sometimes even improves fuel economy depending what driving they are doing, it is a optimisation of the ecu to the engine, some downloads will give improved throttle response supposedly similar to the sport mode but those I've known who have done it didn't have sport mode to start with so how would they know, they recognise that they have improved throttle response but whether it is as much or not I can't say and I doubt anyone else can, the response will differ according to how the opportunity to hit the throttle is. Both of my Cayman S's have had sport mode and I can say that in the case of the Gen2 it is more aggressive than that on the Gen1 but while the salesman at the OPC said it changes the throttle map and such a thing should be possible it is more likely a pedal to throttle ratio change.

3. As I have said the Zentrum remap according to those who have had it done is good and they feel they are effectively in a heightened level of throttle response all of the time. As for other companies there used to be Superchips and a few others some on eBay but as I know many happy customers of Zentrum ( including myself as I had them do a realignment on my car recently ) if I wanted such a thing I would go to them.

Look up some of he past entries by 800 Man he has had it done then PM him.

 

[Colgy]

Gen 1 sport button changes the throttle mapping to a more aggressive one (smaller pedal movements give large throttle openings), loosens the stability management, firms the PASM suspension, makes the sport exhaust go 'noisy' and changes the rev limiter from a soft-cut to hard-cut limit.