Helpful ReplyRegrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie

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BJ Innes
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/04 16:19:19 (permalink)
Good to see the 718 being mentioned in other than snorting, disdainful terms.
 
For a time, I was ploughing a lone furrow on this forum with my opinions on the car. 
 
Gradually, the 982 (718), is acquiring acceptance based on merit, rather than acoustics.
 
Flat-6 or flat-4, they are all great cars. You make your own choice. 
 
Brian
    

Nairnshire,
Highlands
Previous:
2007 Cayman 987.1 2.7 Manual.
2010 Cayman S 987.2 Manual
2012 Cayman R Manual
Current:
2015 Abarth 595 Competizione 180bhp Manual
2016 718 Cayman S PDK
Ray
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/04 16:38:07 (permalink)
BJ Innes
Good to see the 718 being mentioned in other than snorting, disdainful terms.
 
For a time, I was ploughing a lone furrow on this forum with my opinions on the car. 
 
Gradually, the 982 (718), is acquiring acceptance based on merit, rather than acoustics.
 
Flat-6 or flat-4, they are all great cars. You make your own choice. 
 
Brian
    


The 718 is just a car but like any other make/model they evolve. Some older models may be better than the newer model but not many. It all boils down to a preferred choice. In other words its all subjective. There are no rights or wrongs, your money your choice.
 
Ray
MrDemon
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/04 16:51:23 (permalink)
I am not sure it's subjective, new cars have more tech and are easier to drive faster, it's facts, nothing subjective about it.
 
New cars are what they are and every new car has new tech, some times it takes tech a few models to be good, take PDK, gen 1 PDK is a bit poor really, yes a marvel at the time  over tiptronic but 987 PDK to 981 PDK to 718 PDK to GT3 RS PDK-s is all night and day better every time.
 
I am not anti tech I am anti poor old  tech.
 
ESP is crap in the 991, it's getting better and better , I still hated it in the 981 cars so could never own one ! , to a point the new GT3 beat a Lotus in steering feel !!!!!  lol  hard to get ones head round, I will report back on that in 3 weeks.
 
PTV is the new thing,  pair with e-diffs and RWS  makes the car go round corners with zero skill !!!  that's a step too far for me in tech,   but I'll have EPS if it better than old school system for feel, it's not been as good to date so I would rather a 987.2 car over any 981 non GT car. None of that is subjective, !  all facts.
post edited by MrDemon - 2018/03/04 16:53:25

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Ray
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/04 17:13:37 (permalink)
I may not like the high tech of today. The technological innovations may have removed the driving skills or the love of the car. This is where it becomes subjective to me.
Bottom line is that some people may not love the new tech as it removes the soul of driving. You could say that F1 with all its technology has removed the very essence of the formula for many enthusiasts as the driver has become more of a pilot directed by backroom staff? Subjective!
 
Ray.
BJ Innes
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/04 19:31:28 (permalink)
Regarding new technology on current Porsches, let me say this........
 
As a former racer of the old school, I find the new tech on current Porsches a good thing. As my years advance into the 70's, I find the new generation of PDK, EPS, PASM, and to a lesser extent PTV, helpful in prolonging my track driving passion. Were it not for the new tech, I would surely be a disgruntled observer bemoaning the halcyon days of manual shifting, heeling & toeing, and non-ABS and non-power assisted steering. It keeps me going.
 
One aspect I like on my 718 CS is the new Sport PSM selection, not to be confused with the Sport mode. This new feature is activated when you press the PSM switch for only two seconds. A display is then shown acknowledging "Sport PSM selected" This feature, new in the 718, backs off the early intervention of ABS, and PSM. It allows a greater degree of slip before the safety systems kick-in. It works a treat in my experience of track day events so far.
 
PTV is a mixed blessing in my opinion. I'm never quite sure when it is working to be honest, I'm too busy concentrating on the steering inputs and grip messages from the tyres to worry about PTV activation. To this end, for the coming track day season, I have purchased one of those hand-held laser temperature devices to record the temperatures on the surfaces of the front and rear discs after some hot laps. If the rear discs show significantly higher temperatures than the fronts after a spirited session, particularly when the Sport PSM is selected, I shall know whether the PTV is backed off or not.
 
If I were a younger man I would probably not be supporting the case for new tech interventions. Technology is not, and never will be, a substitute for driving skill. You cannot replicate the performance of a skilled track driver by pressing a few buttons on the console. Professional driving tutors will attest to this. The reality is, at my advanced age I am wholeheartedly embracing new technology, as it enhances my driving enjoyment by enabling me to utilise my existing skills well into later life and still set respectable lap times. My lifetime motorsport skills are still there to enjoy on the track. The new technology may well make driving quickly easier, but it's no substitute for in-built skills acquired over a lifetime.    
 
Brian                     

Nairnshire,
Highlands
Previous:
2007 Cayman 987.1 2.7 Manual.
2010 Cayman S 987.2 Manual
2012 Cayman R Manual
Current:
2015 Abarth 595 Competizione 180bhp Manual
2016 718 Cayman S PDK
BJ Innes
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/04 19:47:57 (permalink)
Regarding new technology on current Porsches, let me say this........
 
As a former racer of the old school, I find the new tech on current Porsches a good thing. As the years advance into my 70's, I find the new generation of PDK, EPS, PASM, and to a lesser extent PTV, helpful in keeping me track driving for longer. Were it not for the new tech, I would merely be a disgruntled observer bemoaning the halcyon days of manual shifting, heeling & toeing, and non-ABS and non-power assisted steering.
 
A positive tech addition on my 718 CS is the new Sport PSM selection, not to be confused with the Sport mode. This new feature is activated when you press the PSM switch for two seconds. A display is then shown acknowledging "Sport PSM selected" This feature, new in the 718, backs off the early intervention of ABS, and PSM. It allows a greater degree of slip before the safety systems kick-in. It works a treat in my experience of track day events.
 
PTV is a mixed blessing in my opinion. I'm never quite sure when it is working to be honest, I'm too busy concentrating on the steering inputs and grip messages from the tyres to worry about PTV activation. To this end, for this coming track day season, I have purchased one of those hand-held laser temperature devices to record the temperatures on the surfaces of the front and rear discs after some hot laps. If the rear discs show higher temperatures than the fronts after a spirited session, particularly with the Sport PSM selected, I shall know whether the PTV is backed off or not.
 
If I were a younger man I would probably not be supporting the case for new tech interventions. Be that as it may, technology is not, and never will be, a substitute for driving skill. You cannot replicate the performance of a skilled track driver by pressing a few buttons on the console. Professional driving tutors will attest to this. The reality is, at my advanced age I am wholeheartedly embracing this technology, as it enhances my driving enjoyment by enabling me to utilise my existing skills well into later life. My lifetime motorsport skills are thankfully still apparent on the track, and will hopefully continue for a while yet. Due to new technology, I'm still posting respectable lap times, which is fun for me. The new technology may make driving quickly easier, but it doesn't erase driving skill from the equation. An already skilled driver will harness new technology to achieve even greater heights. Just ask Walter Röhrl...........    
 
Brian                     
tcreswick
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/04 21:07:01 (permalink)
BJ Innes
To this end, for this coming track day season, I have purchased one of those hand-held laser temperature devices to record the temperatures on the surfaces of the front and rear discs after some hot laps. If the rear discs show higher temperatures than the fronts after a spirited session, particularly with the Sport PSM selected, I shall know whether the PTV is backed off or not.



I have a FLIR thermal imager and I find it invaluable on track days (see attached). I don't have any saved pictures of this, but it's also very helpful to check tyre pressures and camber when you image the tyre in the direction of travel.

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BJ Innes
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/05 14:26:40 (permalink)
Thanks tcreswick,
 
I'm looking forward to zapping the hot spots on my car at my first track session at Knockhill due on March 28th. (Weather permitting)
 
My laser temperature device is not as sophisticated as your thermal imaging as shown, but already it's proving useful checking the underfloor heating hot spots in my house!
 
New technology making itself useful......not always the case.
 
Brian 
 
 

Nairnshire,
Highlands
Previous:
2007 Cayman 987.1 2.7 Manual.
2010 Cayman S 987.2 Manual
2012 Cayman R Manual
Current:
2015 Abarth 595 Competizione 180bhp Manual
2016 718 Cayman S PDK
ralphmusic
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/05 14:39:36 (permalink)
I have a 'point and shoot' pyrometer and just check 3 points across each tyre - fronts with some lock on are easy to monitor but rear tyres are rather less so. No memory function but easy to see progression written on a sheet of paper with notes for track temperature and tyre pressures.

Modified Reg - Asst RS
Track Days - Moderator
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MrDemon
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/05 16:44:16 (permalink)
I just thought ***** and bought a proper race Pyro :-)  I also own a laser one though it's handy for simple checks.

Radio ? NONE.
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Air Condidioning? DITTO
A pure roadster. Reduced to the essentials
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cartledge
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/09 18:00:52 (permalink)
I’d like to thank all those of you that contributed an answer and opinion to my original questions.
 
The important outcome to this is that a decision has been made and I will be returning to the fold as a Cayman owner for the second time.
 
In the end it was an easy decision made mostly with the heart - and a little bit of head.
 
After an early exclusion of the much recommended 987R [not for me a daily driver] I was left with a 3 way choice - 2.0 718, 2.5 718 and 3.4 781.
 
Driving and listening [to my heart more than the engine note] I settled on a Black on Black 2015 Cayman S with PDK and a nice spec list. To me this felt like a perfect progression from the 987S that I missed so much. A development but not too radical. I felt “at home” in that model and pulled the purchase trigger. I’ve just got to break the news to the family now.
 
 
JMR
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/09 19:49:40 (permalink)
Nice to hear you have made your mind up cartledge !!
 
Sounds great.  Pics when you have them.
Hehe I chuckled at having to break the news to the family..  
ChrisW
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/03/11 18:34:43 (permalink)
I don't know anybody who has owned a CR who doesn't have a real soft spot for it.
 
There's quite a lot now being written about how collectable they may become.
 
One thing is certain, they are quite rare --- much more so than the GT4.
 
And to square the circle --- you can't buy a GT4 with PDK :)
 
I loved mine !

'Not racing at last !
Weecalum
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/07/21 11:04:12 (permalink)
Interesting thread and opinions above! I have been giving serious thought to a CR for a while now and doing my research at the moment. The above insights are making me thing about other Cayman models instead (still trying to get my head round the difference in models, specs etc...). Anyone got anything else to add?
 
I have never owned a Porsche so completely new to them so all thoughts appreciated. I currently have an Audi B5 RS4 so not really a similar type of car to compare the CR too!
 
Cheers
 
Calum
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Re: Regrets, I’ve had a few - but this was a biggie 2018/07/22 11:16:06 (permalink)
Hi Calum,
 
Unless you just have to have a CR for whatever reason, certainly I'd consider a well-spec'd 987.2 CS. You'll have significantly more choice of cars and you could save ~£20k - that buys you a lot of kit should you wish to upgrade at any time.
 
I have a low mileage 2009 Gen2 CS with a decent 'sport' spec - 19" wheels, PASM, LSD (a rare option), manual transmission, Sport Chrono, sport seats plus a few other goodies. Recently valued by the Club at £27.5k, so you should be able to pick up something decent for about £25k or less. With the introduction of the four-pot turbo engined 718, prices of the flat-6 engined cars definitely have firmed-up; so now's probably a good time to purchase.
 
For some background information and tips on purchasing, have a look at the BUYING GUIDES section of this site as well as this PH article https://www.pistonheads.com/news/buyingguide/ph/28004?utm_source=pistonheads.com&utm_medium=Internal&utm_content=Forum%20Link&utm_campaign=Buying%20Guide%20Porsche%20Cayman%20987
 
Good luck..!
 
Jeff

987.2 Cayman S
North Bedfordshire
PCGB R10 and R24
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