Helpful ReplyStarted.... S2 Clutch Replacement

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Tommys86
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2018/01/17 12:38:20 (permalink)

Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement

Afternoon all,
 
Finally started this dreaded clutch replacement - using the guide off Clarkes Garage. Got to the section of remove the speed sensor and reference sensor on top of the housing and run into some bother.
 
Firstly, and I don't think it's an issue but it appears I only have 1 sensor - must be speed otherwise the engine wouldn't run, which begged the question where is my reference sensor and what does it do? Had heard S2's match 968's and run off 1 sensor in which case happy days but wanted to be sure. I also took photos with my friendly assistant (a red straw) to point out what I'm seeing. I can see what clearly looks like another sensor port, with tapped hole for a retaining bolt - looks like it's never been used.
 
Secondly, which is a bit of bother, once I removed the retaining bolt for the speed sensor I haven't actually been able to remove said sensor..... tried wiggling this thing, very difficult - I'm tackling it from the top but tempted to go from underneath - try and get a large flathead between the housing, rotate it to the wide point in order to pop it?
 
Anyone had similar issue or advance on technique for removal? 
 
Or anyone just carried on with transaxle removal and tackled it later in the strip somehow?
 
I guess ultimately how expensive are these if I accidentally break it - nice to know before if it goes wrong!
 
Cheers,
 
Tom
 

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Cater_Racer
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/17 12:49:24 (permalink)
I take it you've compared it to your red car? 

If you think you've got it all under control, you're not going fast enough.
IanK
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/17 13:59:11 (permalink)
My S2 looks like that.
 
I had a new one fitted when the clutch was done (not be me) - the cost was approx £100 for the crank sensor I recall from Design 911. You can pay twice that at OPC or half that if you get a generic unit and fit the plug yourself.
 
Ian
PAUL RUDDY
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/17 15:18:06 (permalink)
The sensor is notorious for seizing into the bracket, it's one of the major griefs of a clutch change.
 
There really is no cheat, it usually comes down to brute force in the end, if in no rush soak the sensor in releasing fluid for ages, I started soaking mine as soon as I bought the car knowing they would need taking out in the coming months.
 
Some people end up chiselling the bracket off as a final resort.
 
Good news sensors can be bought relatively cheap, I got genuine Bosch ones from Mister Auto for around £80 each, pattern ones can be had for around half that.
 
cheers, Paul
colin944
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/17 16:30:06 (permalink)
The sensor sits in a bracket. remove the bracket with the sensor still in it. 

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sr.944man
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/17 16:36:40 (permalink)
As said above, yes only one sensor on the S2, and keep soaking it with Plus Gas (Other releasing fluids are available), wiggle & pull, maybe mole grips on the top for more purchase. Much better to pull the sensor if at all possible than other approaches. The bracket that the sensor is housed in can be removed, but it won't usually come out with the sensor in place (if it does, you'll have to reset the gap when refitting the bracket). The sensor has an "o" ring seal which will have hardened over time. Keep at it, and good luck!
post edited by sr.944man - 2018/01/17 16:38:14

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Tommys86
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/17 17:29:41 (permalink)
Thanks guys sounds like I need to toughen up and the bracket can't be removed with sensor in situ so grippers might be way forward - onwards! (Updates to follow)
Tommys86
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/17 18:57:32 (permalink)
Its solid so Ive unplugged it at the top and wiggled it down free of hoses and cables etc. Idea being the sensor is firmly connected to housing but free of the car so presumably when I remove the housing I can tackle this issue then? 
Tommys86
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/17 19:33:03 (permalink)
Just to be double sure - these are the two earth points on top of the housing - only want to remove the required items in this tight space !
 

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edh
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/18 18:22:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cater_Racer 2018/01/31 20:36:44
colin944
The sensor sits in a bracket. remove the bracket with the sensor still in it. 



This is what you need to do - you need to loosen the bellhousing bolts (access is a bit of a pain) and pry the bellhousing far enough away from the block. There's a little dowel on the bracket that fits into the block. If you can move the bracket a few mm back from the block to clear this, it will lift out.
 
From what I remember you have to remove the bracket anyway when removing the bellhousing. 
 
Bear in mind the bellhousing is also held in reasonably tight by the clutch fork (another fun job :) )

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zcacogp
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/19 11:11:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cater_Racer 2018/01/31 20:37:09
Tom, 
 
As has been said, take the bracket out with the sensor. If you are lucky then it will come out and fit back in with no adjustment necessary. And yes, I think there is only one sensor on the S2. 
 
The clutch fork is a complete pain. I can't remember how it was done but you need to drift out the pivot from the middle of it and remove the fork with the needle roller bearing in it, and do the same in reverse when re-fitting, which is a monumental fiddle. I seem to recall that it was much easier if you spun the pivot with an air ratchet. You can't detach the bellhousing with the clutch fork still in it. 

 
I also recall that getting to the top bellhousing bolt was difficult too, but made much easier if you had a wobble joint extension for your socket set. 
 
 
Oli. 

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zcacogp
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/19 11:15:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cater_Racer 2018/01/31 20:37:22
Tom, 
 
I'm sure you have seen this before but it's my notes from when I did the job. 
 
https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=435928&high=clutch
 
 
Oli. 

The member also known by John Sims as 'Oil'.
Tommys86
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/28 23:03:51 (permalink)
Hey Oli thanks for the notes, quick update... I'm up to the housing!
 
Gearbox out I had a little moment - didn't quite get the balance right and maybe should have got some help however safety out of the way.
 
Shaft&tube is backed away and fork pin removed so only 4 bolts for housing and this bloody sensor still (I noticed the bracket has a "B" cast into it - I now know what that stands for....).
 
Been soaking it for last couple of days and trying to wiggle it but no joy. So looking at the comments my next logic step is to take bracket off complete with sensor? Sounds like its not the preferred route but can't see it going any other way? :/
 
 
 
 
944Turbo
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/29 08:48:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cater_Racer 2018/01/31 20:38:08
Once it is off you can slot the bell housing so it removes leaving the sensor in place or so you can put the sensor back first, If its had a clutch before this might have been done, 
Tony

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zcacogp
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/30 12:35:09 (permalink)
Tom, 
 
Keep going. Getting the gearbox out and in is one of the major bits of the job so you are doing well. Once you are at the bellhousing then it's pretty much the same as any other car. 
 
All the best with the sensor. I can't add to the good advice already on here. 
 
 
Oli. 
 
 

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944Scott
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/01/30 19:30:40 (permalink)
What's the condition of the clutch fork, needle bearings and pivot pin like? if you are doing the clutch i'd address these and replace the rear main oil seal as whilst you are there jobs.
Cater_Racer
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/02/01 06:51:54 (permalink)
Presumably there's something on the flywheel that the sensor picks up to find TDC or some reference point, to know where the pistons are on their travels?

If you think you've got it all under control, you're not going fast enough.
TTM
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/02/01 09:32:00 (permalink)
If you remove the bracket instead of the sensor you will lose the height adjustment, but when the bellhousing will be off you may try to put it back on, set the correct height and note one way or another how to reapply this height setting when putting the bracket back on after having reinstalled the bellhousing, unless you choose to machine the bellhousing so that it can be resintalled with the sensor/bracket already in place.
 
Notching the bellhousing on 8V cars is not recommended as this can cause interference between both sensors as they seat close to each other. Porsche issued a service bulletin back in the days explaining this problem, and why a separation was moulded in the bellhousing sometime down the line. It shouldn't be a problem on 16V cars.
vitesse
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/02/01 09:38:10 (permalink)
All you need to do to set the sensor height is to glue a standard steel washer using a soft type adhesive onto the bottom of a sensor & then adjust the clamping screw with that sensor installed.
If you are replacing 1or both of the sensors,then use the replaced one instead,then no need to worry about getting the washer off afterwards.
It's all described in Clarkes Garage website

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edh
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Re: Started.... S2 Clutch Replacement 2018/02/01 10:53:45 (permalink)
I don't see how you can get the bellhousing off without removing the bracket?

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