Dinosaur or what?

[Lancerlot]

[FONT=calibri"] Call me a dinosaur if you want, but I’m really struggling to get on with Porsche’s electromechanical steering. I’ve now done just over 2½k in my new 991 Turbo S and I can’t say I’m becoming any more used to it as yet. I understand the principle of saving energy in the quest for more efficiency and to save the planet. I also know that, since the car spends most of its time travelling in a straight line, it makes sense to only power up the steering when it’s actually needed.

[FONT=calibri"]

[FONT=calibri"]It’s just that 911 is a sportscar and the sole reason to buy one is to enjoy [FONT=calibri"]the driving experience, otherwise it’s just a tool to get you from A to B. I want to feel at one with the car, drive it by the "seat of my pants” and experience everything my car is doing. Much of this feedback comes through the steering wheel. It is connected, in a round about fashion, to the road by the tyres (the only components in contact with the road), so in my book, steering is a pretty important part of the equation.

[FONT=calibri"]In my previous 997, you could feel the road surface, grip level and slip angle precisely through the steering. I know the engine was permanently rotating the PS pump and sapping power, so that in these enlightened times, powering up the system when it was not needed, is wasteful. But by golly, that steering was pin sharp. You felt you were really driving a true sports car.

[FONT=calibri"]The first 991’s I drove back at launch in 2012, were quite a shock steering-wise. Performance had dropped off. It was slow to react, was imprecise and when travelling in a straight line, it was possible to waggle the wheel back and forth without any deviation in the car’s direction. You wouldn’t try that in a 997! Since then [FONT=calibri"]the system has been improved a lot, but it's still not up to the old hydraulics in my opinion. I’m envious of drivers who say they can’t tell the difference, because it’s not encroaching on their fun. I fear, if I allow myself to focus too much on this, it’s going to spoil the experience of what is in every other respect, a very fine car indeed.

[FONT=calibri"]The rear end seems very solid, but the front feels a tad "floaty” when pushing on. I can’t say specifically at the moment whether this is due to steering or chassis setup, but I’ve resolved to visit my tame chassis guru later this month to try and get to the bottom of it. Hopefully, with a few hours tinkering , matters can be improved and I can then forget about it altogether and really start to enjoy the time with my new motor.

[FONT=calibri"]I'll let you know how it all goes.

[FONT=calibri"]Regards,

Clive

 

[ralphmusic]

Clive,

Floaty front sounds like Chris needs to sort out toe and/or castor.

Mine was floaty over 135mph on track and was sorted out Wednesday for Silverstone yesterday.

Ralph

 

[unclewinks]

You and me both
the front as you say tends to feel like it is under steering more than it actually is quite unnerving when pushing on
i personall think they have softened the car compared to the 997 which was quite raw

 

[Lancerlot]

Clive,
Floaty front sounds like Chris needs to sort out toe and/or castor.
Ralph

Ralph,
Here's the result of winding on too much toe-out last time, but it was wonderfully pointy! []

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Probably won't be quite so radical next time! []​

Regards,​

​

Clive​

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[Geoff_Fields]

Holy S**t, reinforcing belts on display there Clive = Toe out BAD!

 

[ralphmusic]

There was a chap with a new Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio at Silverstone yesterday and by about 14:30 his near-side front tyre was like your tyre (right hand image). He was being coached by Colin Hoad who is not one to encourage wild driving so how that model got around Nordschleife in 7:32 on one set of tyres is beyond me. This video shows a tad of understeer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhCk6dCB5b4

 

[lowndes]

Maybe having to renew my driving licence this month had something to do with it, but I have a sense that I too am reverting back to the Jurassic era.

Until very recently I thought the 991 electromechanically assisted steering I had had on 991 C2, turbo S and GTS had seemed OK. However, on Monday I had occasion to drive the same 70 miles between me and OPC in two different generations of the same model. The two drives were about an hour or so apart and for obvious reasons the direction of travel was diametrically opposed.

The conclusion though brooks no argument. The 997.2 GT3 has noticeably better and more feelsome steering than the 991. That said it would be manifestly unfair to suggest that the 991GT3 didn’t have very decent steering, it’s just that it is not as good as its predecessor. Will it spoil my enjoyment, probably not. The whole package is so much more refined than the 997 that in my view the character of the 991 GT3 is closer to 991 turbo S than 997GT3. Gone is the rawness of the 997 and in its place a supple, compliant ride, a more cossetted, detached and insulated experience. It will be much faster of course once the 1800 mile running in period is done and I expect it to be a brilliant all-round car great fun to drive and capable of holding its own in almost any company.

Back to the steering. It may well be argued that the overall levels of refinement are contributing to a perceived lack of feel in the 991 GT3 steering. I would counter that the 650S had other worldly levels of refinement in the ride but still provided exceptional feedback through its hydraulically assisted steering.

So Clive, I’m with you. And thumbs down to Porsche for allowing environmental considerations to override one of the essences of a sports car.

Nick

 

[woollyjoe]

Hi Clive...

Read your feedback with interest on steering (no pun intended). I have shunned the 991 gen cars mainly for steering feel, even though they are beautiful and so capable.

I ended up with a 997.2 manual at pretty much what it cost new 9 years ago. Reading this gave me great comfort that I should be ok with the purchase as that is what mattered to me. A 997.2 Gt3 is the next car I think.

Also - is that Justin from Mayfair OPC? If so, we have the same sales guy and he's a real driver and a good guy to talk Porsche (or any car for that matter) with.

 

[Lancerlot]

Hi Joe,
Well, I have some good news for you. Following my original post and after 2k miles covered in order to let the suspension settle, I carried out the promised session with my chassis engineer. We made some small adjustments to alignment/camber front and rear and the result is the steering is now greatly improved and follows the line very well. It is quite acceptable.

True, it is not as accurate as the 997 but it's about 95% of the way there, which is good enough for me. Clearly Porsche have been doing some work on it too because, from the reports I read, the steering response and feedback are now one of the highlights in the new 991 GT3RS just announced. []
Regards,

Clive

 

[Tony Warr]

Your posts in this thread are very interesting Clive. Might it help me and others if you might be able to post your set up print out details please so others may have a starting point to improve other 991s?

 

[Pokhara]

Interesting post Clive. Before I joined the Porsche family recently I'd read condescending articles about the electrical steering so was a little concerned when I purchased a 991.1 over a 997. My only slight grumble would be about the delay in 'waking up' the steering when the auto stop/start has kicked in (although I can obviously avoid this problem by turning the auto stop/start off). Other than that I haven't any complaints: it weights up nicely from slow to higher speeds and (thus far!) I've been able to tell if the front end is starting to go. Perhaps I'm just not giving it enough welly!

 

[woollyjoe]

I think the electro steering is getting better and better, but here's the catch for me... I know it's artificial and when you can tell the difference, it's like going from spotify on your phone, to vinyl at home. We adjust as humans and forget, so whatever you do, don't try the old car again if the new one is working for you!

It's not all steering, there is character in the 997.2 which is basically a flaw, but having the connection with the car and being able to feel it makes you feel better connected to the road and ultimately gives you something to work with.

Even against my GT4, the 997.2 has more feeling if less performance.

 

[Lancerlot]

Your posts in this thread are very interesting Clive. Might it help me and others if you might be able to post your set up print out details please so others may have a starting point to improve other 991s?

Not sure that would be very helpful, Tony and may even send you off in entirely the wrong direction as my settings are specific to the car I drive and take account of tyres, suspension, load, driving style, usage etc.
I would recommend starting out with stock factory settings, equalised on both sides, then adapt them to suit your own requirements.

Take a look at Part 4 of this feature [URL=https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=723696]https://www.porscheclubgb../forum/tm.aspx?m=723696[/URL] from 997 Register to give you an idea of how adjusting geometry affects handling and road-holding.
Regards,

Clive