Helpful ReplyHot!Replacing the hoses and waterpipes.

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Contraband
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2017/04/14 11:29:49 (permalink)

Replacing the hoses and waterpipes.

 
 
Mot passed today. No advisories........ Anyway...
For the last 3 years I've had an advisory saying I had a leaking waterpipe (the car, I'm not that old!).
This year I decided I wanted a clean sheet so decided to replace all of the pipes behind both front wheels. I replaced the lower NSF a few years ago and did a write up on it. It didn't need replaced but it did need cleaned up. I purchased the following parts for £157 from Aberdeen OPC.

 
I had been told by Edinburgh and Aberdeen OPC that the front subframe had to be lowered to enable the cross pipes to be removed and refitted... THIS IS NOT STRICTLY CORRECT. I did not have to do this. It would possibly make it easier but then you would potentially need to get the tracking done again. Dropping the subframe is also not really a DIY job for most people. 

 
Firstly I removed the front undertray. It's just held on with a dozen screws and plastic nuts.
It really protects the pipework underneath, 10 years old and looking good.
 

 
Unclip one of the lower pipes and drain the coolant into a bowl...(not the pipes in the picture above, one of the pipes behind the wheel) About 6L will come out.
It can all be reused after you sieve it through a towel to remove any dirt that has been washed into it.
Remove the 2 clips that hold the cross pipes to the rubber sleeves underneath the car. Just break them and replace with new jubilee clips.
Remove these bolts in the picture below, 1 either side.. (That's the new pipe, didn't take a before!)
 

 
Then remove these bolts, slacken the back ones and swing the arms out of the way.
 

 
The rust on these arms is unacceptable. Everything else is alloy and looking good. They keep the undertray in place. (I did paint them with rust remover).
You can see in the picture below that there is enough room to work with inbetween the body and the subframe.
 

 
There is a plastic clip right in the centre of the subframe that holds the pipes together, it's easy enough to remove.
The pipes are now free. They will only come out from the top as the end that accepts the pipe is too big to pass between the bodywork and subframe... This will be why the dealers drop the subframe... Below is my solution.
 
( I only did this because I didn't slacken the other pipe before I tried to remove this pipe. If I had, this pipe would have wiggled past the other and just pulled out from the wheel arch, as the other one did).
 


 
The fittings had welded themselves together with corrosion, both sides of the car. It really is a shocking design or more likely designed to last X years before you have to visit the dealer!!
The following pictures are of the same pipe. Both 10 years old, one end protected by the plastic in the wheel arch the other end with no protection at all..... Mmmmm.
 


The worst pipe to remove was actually the lower OSF that goes into the plastic fitting. It had rusted and swollen and would not come out. I cut the rubber off and used snips and pliers to remove it bit by bit. It eventually came out and luckily caused no damage to the plastic.

 
 
The new cross pipes are easy enough to wiggle back into place from the top, the only faff being the double pipe clip on the subframe that holds the pipe in the middle. I should have clipped in first before the pipes went back in, I didn't and ended up cutting the clip in half and using a tiewrap.. It's all solid. Put the clips and bolts back in at the top and that's the cross pipes done.
 
When I did the first pipe a few years ago someone suggested I use a gasket type sealer to help seal the pipes.. DON'T... Put them in dry.. Just like Porsche did. I had to remove the sealer gunge before refitting the pipe.
You can see it around the plastic in the photo below.

 
Fitting the four pipes back on is simple. The clips just slide into place. They don't hold the pipe tight they just stop it from falling out, so they might seem a bit slack, but they are doing their job.
In the picture below you can see the pipes in place with nice clean collars. You can see through to the other side and also, right in the centre of the picture, the end of the jubilee clip that holds the crosspipe to the rubber pipe underneath. They just pushed together very easily.
 

 
I then poured the coolant into a bucket with a towel over the top to sieve out any dirt.
It was then poured into a 5L plastic bottle and poured back into the blue cap below.
The metal clip behind the blue cap should be left up whilst the car is running to allow air to bleed out of the system. 
 

 
Once I was happy that there were no leaks I then put black silicone rubber around the new pipe collars to keep out the dirt and moisture. That should keep them as new for years to come.
 
I would urge you all to check your hoses on cars of a certain age. Replacing hoses is really easy but if you leave it too long and the crosspipes start to go then you end up having to do this. I was lucky the lower plastic fittings were not damaged as I might have had to drop the subframe for that.
To top it off, my MOT man commented on my shining waterpipes today.... Result.
 
Archie.
post edited by Contraband - 2017/04/15 19:59:44
Andrew_CS
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/04/14 14:46:56 (permalink)
Good work, thank you for the information . 

Andrew
981 Cayman S PDK
Aberdeenshire (R2)

Previously:
Cayman R Manual


Derek H
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/04/15 10:41:53 (permalink)
Great post, much appreciated as I'm literally about to go out to my garage and attempt to replace the OSF lower hose.  This appears to be the only one showing signs of corrosion on my car and I'm really hoping I don't damage the plastic fitting as I don't want to have to drop the subframe to get that out.  The hoses that connect to the metal cross pipes look ok on both sides at the moment.  Putting some protection on them may help put off the point of replacement.
Contraband
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/04/15 11:11:25 (permalink)
Yes, the lower OSF was the problem hose for me. You can see I had to pick away at the collar to remove rusty metal, cut the hose off and then remove the internal fitting bit by bit.
Just realised I didn't post any pictures of taking the wheel arch liner out... it's so easy it's not worth telling you how actually. Have fun.
 

Derek H
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/04/15 15:10:33 (permalink)
Well, it looks like I need to bite the bullet and do the whole lot.  The OSF lower hose was difficult to remove from the radiator end too so I removed the upper hose at the radiator end to give more room to get at the lower one.  Unfortunately the collar on the upper hose is rusty so that one needs replacing too.  Although I managed to pull the lower hose out from the plastic fitting as shown in your post above, the other end of the upper hose doesn't want to come out of the metal pipe, even though it doesn't look corroded.  Since I've got the under panels off to inspect the rest of the concealed pipework, I thought I'd better do the crossover metal pipes too. 
 
I'm puzzled as to how you managed to get the new pipes installed without lowering the subframe, though you had to cut the old pipe to get it out? 
Contraband
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/04/15 15:41:56 (permalink)
The new pipes go in from the top, not from the bottom. I only cut the pipe because I hadn't slackened the other pipes fittings and it wouldn't wiggle past.
Plenty of room but don't tighten any one pipe before the other is in place as well to allow wiggle room. If the collars are OK on the cross pipes can you not just clean them and replace the hoses?
You could cut the rubber from the stuck top fitting and remove the metal collar with pliers and snips.
The clip is completely removed I take it?
post edited by Contraband - 2017/04/15 15:44:52
Buddy
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/04/15 19:39:26 (permalink)
A good write up Archie, no doubt it will be much appreciated by members wanting to understand what the job entails.

Kevan
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Cayman S Gen2 PDK Amethyst Metallic
Location South Derbyshire
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Derek H
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/04/15 20:33:46 (permalink)
Contraband
If the collars are OK on the cross pipes can you not just clean them and replace the hoses?
You could cut the rubber from the stuck top fitting and remove the metal collar with pliers and snips.
The clip is completely removed I take it?



I've removed both metal pipes but I ended up lowering the subframe about 80mm.  Both rubber hoses are still attached to the metal pipes and all four hoses have corrosion on all visible ends, even though three of them looked ok externally.  I did attempt to separate the hoses from the metal pipes but even though there is no sign of corrosion on either, they don't want to come apart and using screwdrivers to persuade them is deforming the ends.  So I now need to wait until Tuesday to order the additional three hoses, two metal pipes and the two short rubber hoses that attach the other ends of the metal pipes to the plastic fittings.  
 
The old girl is getting a fair bit of attention at the moment as in the last week or so I've replaced the front springs, top mounts, top mount bearings, coffin arms and the drivers window regulator.  Still got a trip to Centre Gravity for a geometry setup and the aircon condensers to do but hopefully that will be it for a while. 
Derek H
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/04/25 20:52:39 (permalink)
My car is back together again.  Overall, it is quite do-able for a competent DIY-er.  I found dropping the front of the subframe for access is not a problem and once you've got the undertrays off, probably only takes half an hour.  I've written up a fairly detailed step by step procedure that includes all the tools required if anyone is interested.
 
However one word of warning for anyone who has already done this or contemplating it.  My eagle eyed MOT tester spotted that two of the four new rubber hoses were not correctly retained.  It turns out that the end fittings on the four hoses use two slightly different diameters.  As a result the spring retainer clips in the Henn couplings are very slightly different sizes, which I didn't spot when I pulled it apart and put it back together.  I got several of the spring clips in the wrong locations, such that when the system was pressurised, two of the hoses popped out from one side of the spring retainer clips.  Fortunately no leakage but it would probably only be a matter of time before they popped out completely.  Should have gone to Specsavers!
 
 
 
 
  
post edited by Derek H - 2017/04/26 07:07:03

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Contraband
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/04/26 19:03:13 (permalink)
The whole point of my post was to not drop the subframe as this could put people off attempting the job themselves..... When you had the new pipes in your hand I would have thought you would have had a go at clipping them together in order to see how they are held in!!
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/04/26 22:01:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chaz1 2017/05/28 07:49:24
My point is that dropping the subframe is very straight forward, provided you have confidence in how to do it.  I'd put it on a par with removing the undertrays - if that!  I don't think you could install the new aluminium pipes properly in the central retaining clip without dropping the subframe and I didn't want to have to cut the retaining clip and use a tie wrap.  Removing and installing the pipes is a whole load easier too with the subframe dropped at the front.  There are mixed views on the need for a suspension geometry check afterwards if you undo the subframe but I've just replaced front springs, top mounts and coffin arms too so I need an alignment anyway.  I should have made this clear. 
 
As for clipping the pipes together off the car, the new aluminium pipes come with new spring clips already installed.  I did test fit the correct flexible hoses into the aluminium pipes off the car so I didn't notice the small difference in end fitting diameters that the other hoses have (i.e. the ones that attach to the plastic fittings rather than the aluminium pipes).  I should have spotted the small difference in spring clips but I didn't.  So I figured that if I can make this mistake, then others might too, hence the reason for posting.  There aren't a great number of DIY guides on this subject but of those I found online, none mentioned this important detail. 
 
 
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/05/25 23:08:29 (permalink)
Hi I unclipped  the pipes but can't see a way to feed them up the top.
 
any advice?
It seems like I will need to drop the sub frame which I was hopping to avoid.
 
chaz
Derek H
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/05/27 08:06:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chaz1 2017/05/28 07:49:32
PM sent.
chaz1
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/05/28 08:11:19 (permalink)
super guide excellent
thanks for your help
I got the pipes out.
Dropping the sub frame was very easy.
The support brackets for plastic pipes do need to come out as they have a clip that restricts pipes being maneuvered.
Every steel part seems to be corroded more than I would have expected.
Re rust parts I am going to try electrolysis to reconvert them back to steel I will do a before and after and post if successfully.
 
 
 
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/07/28 20:29:46 (permalink)
Hi,
You have done the job I'm just doing. I need to replace the aluminium cross pipes. The photos in your post have not come out. Could you send me the pictures please. 
To jeff.darby@yahoo.co.uk
 
Ill try the Porsche place in Glasgow for the parts..
Thanks
Jeff
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/07/29 11:21:51 (permalink)
Jeff,
 
Email sent.
Derek H
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/07/29 11:23:59 (permalink)
Jeff,
 
Email sent.
 
 
chaz1
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/08/22 20:35:15 (permalink)
forgot to add the burping valve has been re sited into the engine bay from the boot there is also another filling point in the engine bay as well as one in the boot.
Filling directly in the engine bay is better. Jacking the car up the rear also helps burp the car. keep checking the coolant for the next few days
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/11/21 15:22:26 (permalink)
Hi Gents
Firstly many thanks for you posts which are very informative and given me confidence to tackle jobs on the car.
The removal of the rubber flexible pipes to rads were as you have all described with plenty of corrosion on the inner ends, the connection to the radiators came away easily with no aggravation.  However changing/removal  of the aluminium cross pipes have me beaten (so far!).  I am trying to do the job without dropping the sub-frame as described by Archie above, but regardless of how much wiggling of the pipes I do there is now way they want to come out.  I have unbolted and removed the two side clips and the pipes are free of the rubber pipes and clamps - the center clip however has restricted access and in fact very difficult to even see.  My main question is mainly to Archie - what am I missing or not doing?
Hope you can help please,
Ian
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Re: Replacing the hoses and waterpipes. 2017/11/21 18:43:34 (permalink)
Hi Ian... I unclipped the clip from the metal frame first. Its fixing point is right in the centre of the subframe and was removed by bending its tabs in and pushing it out. The top pipe in the clip should push out of clip with your fingers or a screwdriver.
 
Archie
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