Hot!Major Service Safety Issues

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Freund
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Freund Guest of the Club
2016/05/30 15:16:19 (permalink)

Major Service Safety Issues

Just to share with you all, and to hear your thoughts on aspects of the service.
 
After a major service, the car was driven for ~150 miles, and it was then discovered that brake fluid was flowing out of a bleed valve, down the caliper and all over the front rim.
 

 


 
A Porsche technical document states “If the front wheel brake fails, the deceleration is less, due to the relief of the rear axle. In addition, the vehicle may swerve due to locking up of the rear wheels.”
 
After taking the wheel off for cleaning (as brake fluid is corrosive), it was discovered that the inner bleed valves hadn’t been opened. Bleeding all these valves is mentioned multiple times in the official service manual.
 

 
According to technical documentation, old brake fluid has increased moisture levels and this causes the boiling point to lower. When brake fluid boils, steam bubbles form and it is difficult or impossible to exert any force to the brakes and will result in brake failure. In addition, vapour pockets can occur causing a spongy pedal. So therein is a subtle and serious safety issue.
 
The brake failure and missed service items were reported to Porsche, and the car was collected some five days later. After replacing all bleed valves, correctly bleeding the brakes, plus some other work the car was returned.
 
All should have been well at this stage, but the saga continued – After ~20 miles, during acceleration, a pop and whoosh was heard, followed by an immediate loss of power.  It was then discovered that a turbo to intercooler pipe had blown off. 
 

 
Pictures of the clip the technician refitted:-
 

 
This was not picked up on when the car was initially serviced, nor the second time when the car was returned to correct the initial batch of problems; the car had to go in for a third time.
 
What would have happened had the vehicle been overtaking when this hose blew off?
 
Looking back, these three safety issues were concurrently present after the initial service. Two adults and an unborn child were in the car for much of the 150 miles driven afterwards.
 
post edited by John Sims - 2016/05/31 11:48:01

6 Replies Related Threads

    Freund
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    Freund Guest of the Club
    Re: Major Service Safety Issues 2017/05/08 09:45:30 (permalink)
    Testing and checking after the initial service should have picked up on all this, but was that done right either?
    There is a nice presentable sheet with all aspects marked green, but what is that worth when the car was returned with safety issues?
    In the interest of safety, never mind the other aspects, it may well be prudent to use a recommended garage. 
    raykelly
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    raykelly PCGB Member
    Re: Major Service Safety Issues 2017/05/24 22:08:02 (permalink)
    That's scary!
     
    I had my fluid changed last year after buying the car and was told that the bleeding screws would all be replaced as part of it. I never checked to see if it was done and always wondered. I do trust them however, as it was PC Belfast and they also installed a Short Shift Kit and all the work was excellent. I would only use these guys or two Porsche Indys I know of. No one else, other than myself :-)
     
    The turbo hose doesn't have to be removed for any of the service parts does it? Thats really really bad, if someone took that off and didn't replace it. Especially when its the car that it is. Don't get me wrong it should be replaced no matter what car. What a 2 quid clip! Some people should not be allowed near a car... no clue, just do the bare minimum. No proactive nor preventative maintenance nor common sense... just do the oil, filters and ignore everything else.... Oh look thats broke... nah doesn't matter, its not part of the major service.
     
    All this is why I try and do as much of the work myself. I check everything and currently aware of items that need to be watched and repaired soon etc... check all screws, bolts and rubbers. Though I am lucky to have a grease pit to do this. It's also because of this that I am weary when I have to leave my car into any garage :-( ...car not taken care of properly, maybe some eegit out test driving it and hitting the limiter etc etc..
     
    Two simple issues but with two very very serious safety issues!! As you say with your family in the car! Unreal. I hope they were offering some explanation and compensation...Thankfully nothing serious happened to you or your family!
     
    Question I have, will you be using them again?
    Also, would you warn us against using them, whoever it is?
     
    tscaptain
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    tscaptain PCGB Member
    Re: Major Service Safety Issues 2017/05/25 08:59:43 (permalink)
    Whoever it is, don't post the name on here - thanks.

    I'm speeding because I have to get there before I forget where I'm going.
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    raykelly
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    raykelly PCGB Member
    Re: Major Service Safety Issues 2017/05/25 09:32:15 (permalink)
    yep agreed :-)
    Freund
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    Freund Guest of the Club
    Re: Major Service Safety Issues 2017/05/29 11:49:11 (permalink)
    No matter how grubby or shiny the sign is over the door of the garage, this experience is a clear indication that we need to be checking (where reasonably possible) that work commissioned has been carried out. You'd know right away that the short shifter was installed, if I were you I would check that those bleed valves were replaced, at least you'd have peace of mind.
     
    I had thought previously that people who work on Porsches would display a high degree of competence and honesty, after all, we are paying top dollar for quality work, right?
     
    The bumper, intercoolers and hoses were taken off as part of the major service, you can see clearly in the photo where the technician was screwing at the clip. It is beyond belief that this clip was not replaced, that the technician didn't notice the clip jammed before it tightened, and that this loose hose wasn't discovered during the post servicing testing (if there was any).
     
    You're right about doing the checks and maintenance yourself, at least you can be sure of what has been done, needs done and perhaps save a few pounds. More importantly, you can be sure that the car is safe. I mean, how do you know that the technician has put the wheel nuts back on with a torque wrench (right way) or an impact gun (wrong way), to save time.... at your cost.
     
    There were three issues -
    • Old fluid in the caliper - track use may lead to brake failure.
    • Leaking bleed valve - pressure loss in front circuit may lead to loss of control.
    • Hose blowing off - sudden and unexpected loss of power may cause an accident when overtaking.
     
    It's one thing being the victim of fraud, but it's entirely another when lives are at risk.
     
    Some things were explained by the garage some things were not, one explanation was questionable. Ultimately, there is more to this than has been written on the form.
     
    Among other things, they offered a free minor service but given the catalog of failures, the three visits to the garage to leave the car right, the aftermath, the risk to my family, would you go back to them?
     
    I just wonder about other vehicles that were in before mine, what treatment they receive? Were the same shortcuts taken?  Are the owners aware?
     
    I hope after reading this thread, people will begin to keep an eye on what happens their car after they ask for work to be done. No matter what car or garage people use, a vigilant check when the car returns, will help to weed out the bad apples in the industry.
    The advice I can give is to ask around, do your research on who is recommended and why, find someone who has had an issue and see how it was sorted or not, and avoid any preconceived assumptions based on sign size or greasy hands. :-)
    Freund
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    Freund Guest of the Club
    Re: Major Service Safety Issues 2018/05/11 20:59:09 (permalink)
    Just a quick note to anyone having issues with a garage (of any brand) whether it be sales, warranty or servicing. There is now a service called the Motors Ombudsman (https://www.themotorombudsman.org/), who can help investigate an issue you have with a garage and provide an impartial resolution. This is a free service and is pretty straightforward to use. 
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