Major Service Safety Issues

[Freund]

Just to share with you all, and to hear your thoughts on aspects of the service.

After a major service, the car was driven for ~150 miles, and it was then discovered that brake fluid was flowing out of a bleed valve, down the caliper and all over the front rim.

A Porsche technical document states "If the front wheel brake fails, the deceleration is less, due to the relief of the rear axle. In addition, the vehicle may swerve due to locking up of the rear wheels.”

After taking the wheel off for cleaning (as brake fluid is corrosive), it was discovered that the inner bleed valves hadn’t been opened. Bleeding all these valves is mentioned multiple times in the official service manual.

According to technical documentation, old brake fluid has increased moisture levels and this causes the boiling point to lower. When brake fluid boils, steam bubbles form and it is difficult or impossible to exert any force to the brakes and will result in brake failure. In addition, vapour pockets can occur causing a spongy pedal. So therein is a subtle and serious safety issue.

The brake failure and missed service items were reported to Porsche, and the car was collected some five days later. After replacing all bleed valves, correctly bleeding the brakes, plus some other work the car was returned.

All should have been well at this stage, but the saga continued – After ~20 miles, during acceleration, a pop and whoosh was heard, followed by an immediate loss of power. It was then discovered that a turbo to intercooler pipe had blown off.

Pictures of the clip the technician refitted:

This was not picked up on when the car was initially serviced, nor the second time when the car was returned to correct the initial batch of problems; the car had to go in for a third time.

What would have happened had the vehicle been overtaking when this hose blew off?

Looking back, these three safety issues were concurrently present after the initial service. Two adults and an unborn child were in the car for much of the 150 miles driven afterwards.

 

[Freund]

Testing and checking after the initial service should have picked up on all this, but was that done right either?
There is a nice presentable sheet with all aspects marked green, but what is that worth when the car was returned with safety issues?
In the interest of safety, never mind the other aspects, it may well be prudent to use a recommended garage.

 

[raykelly]

That's scary!

I had my fluid changed last year after buying the car and was told that the bleeding screws would all be replaced as part of it. I never checked to see if it was done and always wondered. I do trust them however, as it was PC Belfast and they also installed a Short Shift Kit and all the work was excellent. I would only use these guys or two Porsche Indys I know of. No one else, other than myself

The turbo hose doesn't have to be removed for any of the service parts does it? Thats really really bad, if someone took that off and didn't replace it. Especially when its the car that it is. Don't get me wrong it should be replaced no matter what car. What a 2 quid clip! Some people should not be allowed near a car... no clue, just do the bare minimum. No proactive nor preventative maintenance nor common sense... just do the oil, filters and ignore everything else.... Oh look thats broke... nah doesn't matter, its not part of the major service.

All this is why I try and do as much of the work myself. I check everything and currently aware of items that need to be watched and repaired soon etc... check all screws, bolts and rubbers. Though I am lucky to have a grease pit to do this. It's also because of this that I am weary when I have to leave my car into any garage :-( ...car not taken care of properly, maybe some eegit out test driving it and hitting the limiter etc etc..

Two simple issues but with two very very serious safety issues!! As you say with your family in the car! Unreal. I hope they were offering some explanation and compensation...Thankfully nothing serious happened to you or your family!

Question I have, will you be using them again?
Also, would you warn us against using them, whoever it is?

 

[tscaptain]

Whoever it is, don't post the name on here - thanks.[]

 

[raykelly]

yep agreed

 

[Freund]

No matter how grubby or shiny the sign is over the door of the garage, this experience is a clear indication that we need to be checking (where reasonably possible) that work commissioned has been carried out. You'd know right away that the short shifter was installed, if I were you I would check that those bleed valves were replaced, at least you'd have peace of mind.

I had thought previously that people who work on Porsches would display a high degree of competence and honesty, after all, we are paying top dollar for quality work, right?

The bumper, intercoolers and hoses were taken off as part of the major service, you can see clearly in the photo where the technician was screwing at the clip. It is beyond belief that this clip was not replaced, that the technician didn't notice the clip jammed before it tightened, and that this loose hose wasn't discovered during the post servicing testing (if there was any).

You're right about doing the checks and maintenance yourself, at least you can be sure of what has been done, needs done and perhaps save a few pounds. More importantly, you can be sure that the car is safe. I mean, how do you know that the technician has put the wheel nuts back on with a torque wrench (right way) or an impact gun (wrong way), to save time.... at your cost.

There were three issues -

• Old fluid in the caliper - track use may lead to brake failure.
• Leaking bleed valve - pressure loss in front circuit may lead to loss of control.
• Hose blowing off - sudden and unexpected loss of power may cause an accident when overtaking.

It's one thing being the victim of fraud, but it's entirely another when lives are at risk.

Some things were explained by the garage some things were not, one explanation was questionable. Ultimately, there is more to this than has been written on the form.

Among other things, they offered a free minor service but given the catalog of failures, the three visits to the garage to leave the car right, the aftermath, the risk to my family, would you go back to them?

I just wonder about other vehicles that were in before mine, what treatment they receive? Were the same shortcuts taken? Are the owners aware?

I hope after reading this thread, people will begin to keep an eye on what happens their car after they ask for work to be done. No matter what car or garage people use, a vigilant check when the car returns, will help to weed out the bad apples in the industry.
The advice I can give is to ask around, do your research on who is recommended and why, find someone who has had an issue and see how it was sorted or not, and avoid any preconceived assumptions based on sign size or greasy hands.

 

[Freund]

Just a quick note to anyone having issues with a garage (of any brand) whether it be sales, warranty or servicing. There is now a service called the Motors Ombudsman (https://www.themotorombudsman.org/), who can help investigate an issue you have with a garage and provide an impartial resolution. This is a free service and is pretty straightforward to use.

 

[scooby555]

Was this carried out at an Official Porsche Dealership? If so, that's pretty depressing.

 

[Freund]

It's hard to know who to trust these days, especially if there's no contact with the person actually working on the car.

 

[Freund]

This week the garage apparently lowered a roller door down onto a customer's Panamera, one only a few years old. The bonnet has a perfectly straight crease across it, the wing is damaged too.

What would that conversion with the customer be like? Sir/Madam, eerrrrrr you know the £70K car you left in our 'care'.... well......

Need I say more? - Q.E.D.

 

[carnaby35]

Taking the 718 in for a service and brake fluid at an OPC next week and it ain't cheap. When you think about it you haven't a clue whether fluid has been changed or not- or oil for that matter. Unless of course you stay there whilst it is done.
Also it will receive a 'complementary' alignment check. All they have to do is tweak the suspension slightly whilst up on the ramp and hey presto it needs the geometry setting- that'll be £lots please sir.
Call me cynical but all the negative tales you hear about main dealerships of any brand makes you think like that.
i think it is about time the government looked into malpractices by the motor trade and did something to try and sort it out.
There- rant over!!!

 

[Motorhead]

I honestly think that you're more likely to get better service from a Porsche Independent where you can talk directly to the Service Manager or, even better, the technician who does the work. Their labour rates generally are significantly lower than those of the Dealerships too ... sometimes less than half!

I suppose it all depends upon whether or not you value the Official Dealership stamp in the service book. For other work, reputable Independents will always fit genuine Porsche parts if requested.

Jeff

 

[carnaby35]

Same here Jeff and I know you can officially go to an Indy and keep your warranty etc etc but on this occasion as car is fairly new I decided to use OPC just in case any warranty issues arise. Hopefully that will not give them any wiggle room and excuses if anything goes bang!!!

 

[AndrewCS]

My recent six year service (30k), at the Porsche `fixed rate pricing` was the equivalent of that offered by a leading Independent (not local but they would have been en route of a planned trip).

Where the Independent did `score` was re. a full disc & pad change, using genuine parts. Lower hourly rates of course but Porsche must also be discounting their servicing packages.

For the service items, the itemised quotes from both parties showed several of the Independent`s genuine parts higher than the OPC`s.

If your OPC does not subscribe to this fixed rate pricing then ask them to price match to another `local' dealer that does (in my case … of ninety miles away).


Trust … I requested the OPC return all the service parts, which they did without question … apart from the fluids []

 

[carnaby35]

It's a pity we have to go to such lengths instead of just being able to book in at an OPC confident in the knowledge that everything will be done as it should and at a competitive price instead of worrying about shoddy workmanship, being ripped off, having the car returned with damage and having some spotty faced 18 yr old apprentice taking your car out for a good ragging!!!!

 

[scooby555]

"It's a pity we have to go to such lengths instead of just being able to book in at an OPC confident in the knowledge that everything will be done as it should and at a competitive price instead of worrying about shoddy workmanship, being ripped off, having the car returned with damage and having some spotty faced 18 yr old apprentice taking your car out for a good ragging!!!!”

Just wondering how your service went last week? I’ll likely be using the same one shortly and always concerned about main dealers and servicing

 

[AndrewCS]

It's a pity we have to go to such lengths instead of just being able to book in at an OPC confident in the knowledge that everything will be done as it should and at a competitive price instead of worrying about shoddy workmanship, being ripped off, having the car returned with damage and having some spotty faced 18 yr old apprentice taking your car out for a good ragging!!!!

Any recommendations - locations on who to avoid ?

Much the same re. most purchases then, a little homework goes a long way for `peace of mind`.

 

[scooby555]

It's a pity we have to go to such lengths instead of just being able to book in at an OPC confident in the knowledge that everything will be done as it should and at a competitive price instead of worrying about shoddy workmanship, being ripped off, having the car returned with damage and having some spotty faced 18 yr old apprentice taking your car out for a good ragging!!!!

Just wondering how your service went last week? I’ll likely be using the same one shortly and always concerned about main dealers and servicing

 

[carnaby35]

Hi Scooby,
Bit of a tale there. Bought the car in August at 18 mths old and it was given an intermediate oil change.
6 months and 3k miles down the line I reckoned it needed it's 2yr service.
I rang three different OPCs to find out what servicing it required and got a different answer from each!!
I bit the bullet in the end and decided on a £600 full service ignoring the previous oil change in order to get onto two yearly servicing.
Took the car in and after waiting for two hrs was eventually told- it doesn't need a service ( due to intermediate oil change) I mentioned that it hadn't had brake fluid or air filter but air filter doesn't get changed until 60k miles and to be honest I have never changed brake fluid on a vehicle and have never had any problems. I do not intend to be ragging the car on track and boiling the fluid either so I reckon it can wait till next time. Pollen filters get changed but it's a softop, we have the roof down most of the time so must get our fair share of pollen!??
I reckon the oil change is the most critical so am satisfied with that until the next service. After all, I have followed the official advice from the OPC so why throw money away?