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clubsport
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clubsport PCGB Member
2016/02/18 09:57:02 (permalink)

Ethanol concerns?

I searched the forums and looked through the 993 FaQ and technical area and couldn't find anything definitive on this?
I have been reading on a few forums about the ethanol component increasing in fuel at the pumps and how it's not ideal for the 993.
 
Is there a definitive word on this as far as the 993 is concerned?
I have been using the higher octane Shell as it is convenient and hopefully consistent.
Some people are avoiding certain brands, others topping up with an additive and the majority seem to be confused like myself or just carry on regardless.
I would think PCGB has enough members running older cars for this to be a consideration, if there is a concern????
Cheers.
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davepaul993
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2016/02/18 13:14:27 (permalink)


dave paul
993`s are best
see below porsche pics.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13416320@N07/albums
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13416320@N07/albums/72157698839469855
clubsport
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2016/02/18 14:02:07 (permalink)
Thanks davepaul993 for the link.
 
I had read that, it seemed much more opinion based and I couldn't work out anything definitive amongst the confusion.
MoC2S
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2016/02/18 14:41:08 (permalink)
Hello Clubsport, me old china ! I do hope your lovely motor is not just quietly appreciating in a heated garage ..  
 
I did write it up in the register column once or twice .. the reality is that the 993 can tolerate up to 5% ethanol, but not the E10. If you are using 98 RON or better, you should be OK unless things change. The enforced introduction of higher ethanol content seems to be slipping, but I think it is essential for clubs like ours to monitor the situation, and lobby to keep a suitable fuel available (subject for next Awfishul Conference methinks, if we're allowed to say anything .. ).
 
E10 fuels should also be clearly labelled at the pumps, so keep your eyes peeled too !  
 
cheers, Maurice
 

Maurice Piper
993 Register Secretary 2003-2020
993 Assistant Register Secretary 2001-2003
' Wild things are always faster'
from ' Two Dogs' by Philip Hodgins
clubsport
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2016/02/18 15:06:04 (permalink)
Hi Maurice,
Hope you are well and enjoying your car.
Thanks for your thoughts, I do recall reading your comments in the 993 section of the magazine.
Obviously, I use super 98 or higher of available...... I am trying to get my head around whether all higher octanes are ok to use depending on their chosen mix of additives?
From what you are saying, carry on using Shell higher octane for now with an eye open for future developments, which makes sense.
Cheers.
MoC2S
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2016/02/18 15:16:23 (permalink)
A little light reading on the subject from the last 'consultation'.. looks like 'protection grade' will be available at least to end 2016 ..
 
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/256215/gov-response-motor-fuel.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/256216/ia-motor-fuels.pdf
 
So watch out for E10 and EN228 .. 
 
ho hum, time for a nap .. 
 
cheers, Maurice
 
post edited by MoC2S - 2016/02/18 15:18:00

Maurice Piper
993 Register Secretary 2003-2020
993 Assistant Register Secretary 2001-2003
' Wild things are always faster'
from ' Two Dogs' by Philip Hodgins
Chrishazle
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2016/02/18 16:29:43 (permalink)
One word of warning if abroad. In Northern Spain last year I pulled up at a 98RON pump at one service station, then noticed the E10 label on the pump. Asked the attendant if they did E5 98, he said no, but go 5 miles down the road to the Repsol station and you'll get it. So, off to Repsol - who told me none of their fuels contain Ethanol! Not sure I believe that, but be aware that, at least in Spain and possibly elsewhere in Europe, not all 98RON is E5 or less!!

2008 MB SLK280 facelift, Fire Opal Red with lots of toys.
93 968 tip cabriolet, tahoe blue, cobalt blue leather interior, Pro...he grey cloth / leatherette interior, owned Nov 98 - July 2011
Completely original - no modifications from "as ordered".(321 > max. 255)
davepaul993
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2016/02/19 10:34:36 (permalink)
i did up till a year ago use nitro + shell,
but since use bp super it seems ok 
 


dave paul
993`s are best
see below porsche pics.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13416320@N07/albums
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13416320@N07/albums/72157698839469855
clubsport
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2016/02/20 09:24:11 (permalink)
Just a thought, the 993 section of the forum is an excellent resource for current and prospective owners.
Would it be worth updating the Faq or Technical article section?
I read the technical article on fuel requirements for the 993, this was written some time ago and didn't appear to mention any concern between 5 & 10% ethanol content. This issue is likely to be more relevant in the near future.
 
I hope there aren't too many legal implications to posting recommendations as the oil companies publish their specifications online available for all to view. 
 
 
MoC2S
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2016/04/24 18:16:22 (permalink)
clubsport
Just a thought, the 993 section of the forum is an excellent resource for current and prospective owners.
Would it be worth updating the Faq or Technical article section?
I read the technical article on fuel requirements for the 993, this was written some time ago and didn't appear to mention any concern between 5 & 10% ethanol content. This issue is likely to be more relevant in the near future.
 
I hope there aren't too many legal implications to posting recommendations as the oil companies publish their specifications online available for all to view. 
 

 
Hi Paul
 
I have added a note to the Fuel Tech Article, thanks for reminding me ! I'm monitoring the situation pretty closely, but be aware that some things you read might be based on unrealistic reassurances from other bodies. The legislation must be renewed this year or allowable ethanol levels will rise. 
Oh, and I had made this thread a sticky FAQ now that the new forum software offers this option .. 
 
There is no problem discussing RON and Ethanol content here, you can still choose T**c0 Premium Unleaded 99 RON if you need the extra bonus points for your next holiday in Bournemouth ..  

cheers, Maurice
post edited by MoC2S - 2016/04/24 18:20:21

Maurice Piper
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993 Assistant Register Secretary 2001-2003
' Wild things are always faster'
from ' Two Dogs' by Philip Hodgins
edelschmetterling
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2017/07/06 17:06:35 (permalink)
I would personally stay away from any fuel that begins with "E". - I learnt that Germany prohibits government officials to use ethanol in their vehicles and I was sold on that conviction alone.
I was also advised that the 993 wasn't really affected by the E5, it was mainly the boxers and 996s - but in any case, reports that fuel suppliers had problems storing the stuff as it eats through the tanks was the final 'stay away' message I needed.
 
"If in doubt leave it out"

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Chrishazle
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2017/07/06 19:11:24 (permalink)
When this concern was first raised some years ago, it was only cars earlier than 1995 that were affected, could tolerate E5 but not E10 due to the lining of various fuel lines not tolerating more than 5% Ethanol. In other words, Boxster and younger were OK, 968 and older were not. This information apparently came from Porsche themselves, but as I have not bookmarked the thread (just tucked it in the memory) and can't even be 100% certain that it was on this forum rather than 968uk, I can't document it. There were also threads about the insidious advance of Ethanol in petrol, a member on one of my 4 car forums wrote to all the major petrol companies and received assurance from the majors (I remember for sure Shell and BP) that they had no plans to increase Ethanol content beyond 5% in their high octane fuels, so where normal 95RON might go >5%, the 98-99RON would not.
 
Be aware that in Europe a lot of 95RON is now >5% (E10) and I even found a 98RON E10 in Northern Spain - and was told at a Repsol petrol station that Repsol do not use Ethanol in any of their petrols (but I still went for the 98RON!).

2008 MB SLK280 facelift, Fire Opal Red with lots of toys.
93 968 tip cabriolet, tahoe blue, cobalt blue leather interior, Pro...he grey cloth / leatherette interior, owned Nov 98 - July 2011
Completely original - no modifications from "as ordered".(321 > max. 255)
majorporsche
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2017/07/07 00:07:06 (permalink)
On a recent trip to France I found many stations only sold E 10 95, not E5.
ian harvey
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2017/07/07 20:21:12 (permalink)
I recall being told not so long ago that BP super unleaded contains no ethanol whatsoever and consequently feed this fuel to my 964, particularly when resting over winter.
davepaul993
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2017/08/07 11:04:25 (permalink)
i sent two emails regarding ethanol content in petrol,
to bp & shell
i have had back only one so far here is the reply below
 
Dear Dave Paul,
 
 
Thank you for your Email received in this office on 01-Aug-2017.
 
Please kindly be advised the ethanol content does not depend on the area, both our regular and Ultimate with Active technology fuels contain up to 5%.  
 
Thank you for contacting Bp and allowing us to respond to your concerns.
 
Yours sincerely,
 
Fanni
 
Retail Customer Care Team
 
Email: careline@bp.com
 
Internet:&nbsp www.bp.com
 
 
BP Oil UK Limited a company registered in England and Wales with company number 446915, VAT number GB 243 5105 93 and whose registered office is Chertsey Road, Sunbury on Thames, MiddlesexTW16 7BP
post edited by davepaul993 - 2017/08/07 11:05:32


dave paul
993`s are best
see below porsche pics.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13416320@N07/albums
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13416320@N07/albums/72157698839469855
davepaul993
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2017/09/06 13:47:22 (permalink)
here is shells response to question
its same as bp but does not say anything different.
 
Hi Dave,
 
 
 
Thank you for contacting Shell Technical. I apologize if no one was able to reply to your email last time.
 
 
 
In compliance with current UK fuels specifications, all petrol products has up to 5% ethanol. This means that, in the UK, Shell regular gasoline and Shell V-Power gasoline are likely to contain some ethanol, but it will not be present at more than 5%.
 
 
 
I hope this helps. Should you have any more questions, please feel free to revert to us.
 
 
 
Regards,
 
JR
 
Lubricants Technical Support Specialist
 
United Kingdom
 
 
 
0800 731 8888, Option 3
 
[email=productinfo-UK@shell.com]productinfo-UK@shell.com[/email]
 
 


dave paul
993`s are best
see below porsche pics.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13416320@N07/albums
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13416320@N07/albums/72157698839469855
edelschmetterling
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2017/10/13 12:49:58 (permalink)
I was advised that the 993 is much better suited to handle 5% than the newer cars that followed & agree from the scary conversations I have had that 10% is a no go zone. I also learnt along the grapevine that the German government issued a 'no use of Ethanol fuels' for official government vehicles. That is also a good to know; if it is one thing I dislike, it is hypocrisy!

Auspicium melioris aevi
Adrian Lithgow
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2018/01/30 17:16:33 (permalink)
Is Sta Bil fuel stabiliser recommended by anyone as a way of counter acting the bad effects of E10 ?
Chrishazle
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2018/01/30 21:46:30 (permalink)
If your car is a 968 or older, do not use E10 unless all your rubber lined fuel lines have been replaced with ethanol OK lines - which I would guess no-one has done. However, you can see from my first post on this topic that Boxster and younger cars are supposed to be OK with E10 fuels - although personally even in this country I stick to 98-99RON (V-power, Moventum or similar) as I find my car is happier on them, and with the limited mileage I do the added cost is not noticeable.

2008 MB SLK280 facelift, Fire Opal Red with lots of toys.
93 968 tip cabriolet, tahoe blue, cobalt blue leather interior, Pro...he grey cloth / leatherette interior, owned Nov 98 - July 2011
Completely original - no modifications from "as ordered".(321 > max. 255)
MoC2S
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Re: Ethanol concerns? 2018/04/12 14:54:05 (permalink)
The 993 fuel recommendations are widely published, 98 RON and E5 maximum. No supposed to be OK about it !
 
I don't think Porsche would bother testing fuel additives, so you're on your own with that one.
 
cheers, Maurice

Maurice Piper
993 Register Secretary 2003-2020
993 Assistant Register Secretary 2001-2003
' Wild things are always faster'
from ' Two Dogs' by Philip Hodgins
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