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My inadvertent 944 turbo project

aporschefan

PCGB Member
Member
I've been looking forward to writing this post and wanted to wait until the car is back with me but thought I'd post this anyway as I can't sleep.

It's a bit of a long story but here goes. Do keep in mind, I'm no mechanic, useless with a spanner, never worked on a car and a novice driver in terms of fast cars. I do though want to learn about all these areas, and am especially keen to improve my driving skill. From where I'm starting, that won't be hard! :)

Space and time is a limited resource for me so usually end up handing the car to an indy for jobs I could/should perhaps attempt myself.

Anyway, apologies in advance for the long post, but here goes...

I bought the car in Feb 2011 from a chap in Stourbridge. He had it prepared for hill climb racing by a company based in the Midlands. As per the usual advice, a PPI was completed which didn't raise any major concerns.

Here's a little bit about the car - All taken from the original advert:

"Invoice was for over £10,000 and completed August 2010.

The car has been run in correctly over the 2,000 miles since and all niggles attended to (rubber pipes and hoses mostly).

Detail of work undertaken;

Engine re alosilled including pistons
new big end shells, main bearings and piston rings
Wide fire head gasket and head bolt kit
Re con cylinder head and water pump replacement
New gasket top end set and new turbo seals
Conversion gasket set
New water pump for turbo
New recon radiator
New clutch
New sump gasket and seals
Oil filter and coolant and oil
New balance belt
New cam belt
Bigger injectors
Syfi engine ecu mod
Chips for both boxes
Dual port wastegate
Boost control kit
Amal valve
Air mass kit
Re built gear box
Limited slip diff
Air con re filled and functions
All electrics checked and functioning - tilt and remove roof, central door locking, rear wiper and windows and front head lamps
New indicator housing and bulbs
New rubber hoses
new clutch feed hose
New starter motor
New battery
New 17" wheels and tyres
Sun roof bag
New front apron and bumper.

The car has done 172,000 miles and only 2,000 since re build in August."

Shortly after buying the car, I had it test driven by Jaz in Wembley as a precaution and had them address the issues found. (Steering shaft and new locking wheel nuts) No other issues were raised. In fact, like the PPI, the mechanic at Jaz commented positively on the car.

Over the next 2 years or so, I had the following work completed on the car my various respected indy Porsche garages: (This isn't an exhaustive list and is prior to any work completed by COG and JMG)
Steering shaft replaced
New spark plugs
Fitted Mcintosh MX406, had door builds for speakers, fitted amps in boot, bluetooth installed
Replaced boost controller
New washer bottle and washers repaired
Replaced boot seal
PAS belt changed
Front ARB rebushed with powerflex
Replaced bulbs in instrument cluster
Replaced all 4 tyres with Michlen PS2 N3
New gear linkage
6k service
New Bosch battery
Fitted 968 door handles
Service (22.03.13 @ 182k miles)
Bought stone guard (still to be fitted)
Bought DA polisher and various cleaning/wax/polishing products
Fitted new earth strap to battery

My first real concern with the car was when the engine would suddenly cut out. This was only a few months after purchasing the car. There was no obvious trigger. I changed various consumables trying to address this but with no luck. (DME relay, fuel filter, dizzy cap) I took the car to Jaz who changed impulse senders at a significant cost but without solving the problem. Eventually I took the car to Ollie and the team at RPM who quickly diagnosed and resolved the issue. It was a vacuum leak. The problem hasn't resurfaced since then.

During mid 2012, the stock exhaust was replaced with a switchable Wortec exhaust and the Scivision MAF was replaced with a standard rebuilt AFM. The Scivision had seen better days so needed to go. This work was completed by the chaps at ProMax. Andy mentioned the car was running a little lean so made some other adjustments too. Although, he wasn't 100% happy with the cooling. More on this later too!

In Dec 2012 I changed the suspension to KWV3 and replaced many or most worn bushes with Polybushes with Chris at COG. (What a great team they are! I honestly can't recommend them highly enough.) Really, I should have replaced all bushes but Chris said I didn't need to. Castor mounts were also changed. The callipers completely rebuilt, (plate lift addressed, new seals, pistons, etc. Front discs stencilled. ) The callipers were painted yellow and powder coated. Purists would suggest stick with black callipers but I had just bought a momo steering wheel with yellow marking across the top of the steering wheel (Sorry, can't remember the name of the steering wheel - Will dig out the name or add a picture later) Anyway, I thought pairing the yellow in the calliper with the yellow in the steering wheel would work. It's actually very discreet and not in your face. Also, the car is black so having yellow callipers added a little bit to the aesthetics and overall contrast in my opinion. I'm thinking of changing the seat belts from black to yellow but unsure if it will make the car a bit chavtastic??

Front discs were changed to Serbo discs and pads (all round) to Ferodo DS2500. The brake fluid was also changed.

The suspension and brakes were refreshed because they needed to be, but also in anticipation of the March track day Edd had organised.

Chris will recall I was wanting the car drive as new and that was part of the reason for updating suspension components. I made several trips to COG, each time changing the KW settings and making the car more firm. Eventually, Chris suggested I look at other areas of the car such as engine mounts and gearbox mounts to improve the car further.

In approx Feb/Mar this year, I also had the rear left quarter and the passenger door repainted by a local garage a friend and I have used before.

Whilst researching engine mounts, and short shift kits, I stumbled across JMGs website. (Despite changing the gear linkage the year before, I still wasn't 100% happy with the gear change. It still felt a little sloppy and vague.) After a brief discussion with Jon at JMG regarding his short shift kits, I visited him to test drive a couple of cars with the short shift kits fitted and for JMG to inspect my car. I was expecting a few small/medium issues but nothing major.

Whilst with Jon, we staring discussing performance upgrades for turbos. This ended up being a very expensive conversation! Not sure weather to use :) or :( at this stage.

The feedback from the inspection wasn't what I was hoping for. There were many more jobs needing attention than I expected. Thankfully, the sills were not identified as an area of concern.

After numerous lengthy discussions and email exchanges with Jon, I eventually agreed to the below mods. This was in addition to addressing the issues found in the inspection. This work started in March 2013.

Vitesse maf kit
Vitesse racing piggy back fuel tuner
DPW
Induction kit
Vacuum kit
Intercooler
Motorsport fuel pump
72lbs injectors
GReedy EBC

The reason for choosing these parts were for reliability, maintenance and obviously, performance improvements.

By adding these parts, I was aiming to have a car with minimal lag, as much torque as possible and coming in as early as possible. I wasn't too fussed about chasing HP figures but was more interested in a linear power delivery. Changing the turbo was an option but that's something I can do later - hopefully without much difficulty. Ideally the car would have had a dyno run before so I could compare the eventual results but didn't think about this at the time.

Some of the other issues addressed were: (Not listed in any particular order and definitely not a comprehensive list)

New engine mounts,
New earth straps,
Fit missing under tray,
Fix water leak,
Replace thermostat and cooling system,
Replace clutch fluid,
New rear discs,
Replacement of steering rack,
Tie rod and track rod ends,
Replace steering shaft,
Power steering,
New widefire head gasket and reconditioned turbo cylinder head,
Replace 2 coolant pipes,
JMG Road shift kit,
Bush for front shift and refurbished front shift.

Originally, replacing the head gasket, cylinder head and thermostat were not part of the plan. This became a necessity because during the rest of the work, it was established the previous owners garage had used a cylinder head from a 944 lux and not a Turbo! So the valves were also incorrect etc. Also, the thermostat had been drilled and stuck/forced into a position which it shouldn't have been in. (This would have been the issue Andy at ProMax could sense regarding the cooling.) No doubt, this had caused some damage so I'm glad this was found by the chaps at JMG before I took the car home or to a track day. Once this was discovered, I really had no choice but to put these things right.

Unfortunately, as the scope of the original project increased, JMG were not able to return the car to me in time for the track day. Not ideal but out of their and my control. There will be more track days as Jon put it at the time. :)

Once the work was completed, JMG were testing the car and the evening before I was supposed to collect the car, I received a call with yet more bad news. Cylinder 3 had developed a crack! Just what I didn't need. More delays and further significant unexpected expense! This was a real kick in the balls! And it bloody well hurt.

There were two choices. Try selling the car in it's undriveable condition and loose a lot of money, or bite the bullet and keep going. I choose the latter.

The search started for a late 944t bottom end but with no luck. I had just missed out on a couple by a matter of weeks.

Not wanting to wait indefinitely for another late 944t bottom end to surface, I changed the scope of my search to include complete engines. Eventually finding one on ebay which I bid on and won. The seller refused to sell at the winning price though. Reason being he claimed he forgot to add a reserve price and the winning bid was below what his reserve price would have been.

So the search continued and eventually I managed to source a complete engine from Porsche Apart. My communication throughout the process was with Simon who is knowledgeable, courteous, quick to reply to calls/emails etc. These guys are great people to do business with. It really was an altogether different experience from my dealings with the ebay chap. Simon confirmed compression tests carried out gave the following results:

Cylinder 1 135 psi
Cylinder 2 132psi
Cylinder 3 145 psi
Cylinder 4 145 psi

I may have paid a little more than I should have but there were not many 944t (250bhp) engines around. Despite advice from various people suggesting I could opt for a 220bhp 944t engine, I specifically wanted a 250bhp engine as I know when it does come time to sell the car, anything else would have raised eyebrows and perhaps killed any interest in the car. I don't plan to do this again so wanted it done properly and using the best/most appropriate parts available.

The engine arrived and was reviewed by JMG. My fear was it may not have been as described but Mark at JMG was very impressed with the engine. Everything was as it should be and as described.

Whilst the new engine was being fitted, I took the opportunity to change all (cam and balance) belts, the water pump and all seals and gaskets etc. The widefire head gasket set was changed again. (I must have the record for the shortest ever gap or the fewest miles between replacing new widefire head gaskets!)

Having fitted the new engine, the next step was to reset/complete the road tuning.

Unfortunately, this lead to the discovery of yet more issues. Namely, the discovery of leaking fuel lines and a problem with the radiator. The fuel lines were probably in their way out. Having read the recent threads about the issues around fuel lines, once I knew they were leaking, I really didn't have any choice but to change them for new 9xx fuel lines. (Front and rear fuel lines were replaced.) I suppose the radiator was the next weakest link and hence the issue with it. I don't recall the exact issue but I think it was related to the cap in some way. Again, not wanting a part fix, I had a new radiator purchased and fitted. Not sure I had any other option either to be honest. Having done so much work, and changing so many parts for new, I didn't want to buy a second hand radiator. It just didn't seem right in the bigger picture.

There was another issue discovered on the same day related to the steering. I don't recall the exact problem just now but it had something to do with an oil leak from the steering and a steering coil? (Jon, you may be able to confirm exactly what the issue was?) but it was severe enough to make the car undriveable. So new parts ordered and those were replaced too.

Eventually we reached a stage where no more bits were falling off or needing replacing. So we are now back to completing the road tuning and testing. Mark is happy with low and mid range boost and it's apparently smooth and progressive. Just as per the original requirement. Current weather conditions are preventing Mark and Jon from setting up boost at higher revs. Hopefully this will be concluded on Mon/Tue.

The good news is that's all that's left and I don't want to tempt fate, but there's not much more than can go wrong. (I sincerely hope so anyway!!)

Based on my initial discussions with Jon, his experience in tuning 944 turbos and bearing in mind my original requirements, we had agreed the best option would be to aim for 320bhp and 370lbs torque. Obviously I haven't had the car on a RR but initial discussions with Mark suggest bhp may be more than initially expected and torque is there or there abouts. I imagine the bhp may be more due mainly to new valves and all new seals, gaskets and other engine work which wasn't part of the original plan. I won't mention what bhp Mark thought it may be but I'd be very very (pleasantly) surprised if his thoughts turn out to be correct. I certainly hope they do. :)

Right from the off I wasn't actually concerned about rolling road figures. It was always about getting the delivery as I wanted it. That said, I had planned on joining some of you on the dyno day earlier this summer but was't able to as the car was still with JMG. I missed out on the Brighton hoon for the same reason this year. I would definitely go next time a RR session is organised. After doing all this work, it would be criminal not to know.

I have to say, JMG were under a lot of pressure with Jon being away. There was also the small matter of their relocation to a new site for JMG to manage. While Jon was away, all of my communication was with Mark and although he was (understandably) extremely busy, and sometimes difficult to reach, Mark could never do enough to help. From start to finish, Jon and Mark have proven to be most knowledgeable about these cars and been patient with me and my many emails. I would certainly have no hesitation in recommending JMG to anyone. (I'm not linked or affiliated to JMG in any way. Just a satisfied customer.)

Jon briefly mentioned my car on the tipec form. Here's link to the post. (http://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=15690&start=15) see the comment starting "We have a 944 turbo in the workshop at the moment, a 250 car...". This was roughly when we knew the engine needed to be replaced but before the work was completed.

Originally, I had planned to keep the car 2-5 years. Due to the amount of money I've had to spend maintaining this car, in my opinion, it would be stupid to sell it. My plan is to now enjoy the car and drive it as much as possible for as long as possible. Hopefully next year I'll book myself some driving tuition with these guys - http://www.carlimits.com/script/viewEvents.php?type=airfieldtraining.

Things that are still on my to do list, refresh the seats (Jon, I'm still interested in your linen sports seats :) ) or buy Recaro PP or sports seats, improve radio signal, adjust/repair handbrake, buy another set of wheels & tyres for winter, replace bushes which haven't yet been changed, replace gearbox mounts. The bushes and gearbox mounts are the priority, although there is no hurry or desperate need. I'm being fussy and just don't like that there is something in the car that can be improved. There is a little rust on the front wheel arch. The car is going to be garaged so I'm not too concerned. I will have it addressed though.

I acted a little hastily when buying the car but hindsight is a wonderful thing. (Also, I'm very impulsive so that doesn't help when I get a little excited.) I guess the lesson learnt here is to ensure you get the best possible PPI done. I took a friend with me when I bought the car and although he knows a lot about cars, he isn't a 944 nut. I suggest, if the car you're looking at has been modified, ensure the PPI company knows the marque/model inside out and checks specific modifications too. These cars are becoming cheap to buy and (as in my case) cost a fortune to put right if you want it done properly.

Unfortunately, I understand another customer at JMG may have a similar issue to mine re a lux block/head fitted to a turbo!

Once I get the car back, I'll want it valued for insurance purposes. Despite the bit on the left saying 'guest of the club' I am a member so will sort that out once I get the car back. No idea what it is worth now that it has a new engine and all these mods have been applied. I'm (sadly) not going to be able to recover most of the money spent on the car. Hopefully the next 5 years should be pretty straight forward as all key areas have been addressed. At least I will enjoy driving the car knowing it was set up the way I wanted and for me.

Maybe one day I will respray the whole thing in Tahoe Blue. It may not be the fastest colour but IMO, it's the best colour for a late 944.

Will try to add some pictures when I have a little more time.

So, long post over. I'm just looking forward to next Friday when I hopefully collect the car!

eta: compression test results from Porschapart
 
Tried attaching pictures. They're all too large apparently. How can I reduce the file size so the images can be uploaded?
 
A question for others here with similar levels of tune to their 944 turbo. At what intervals do you or should you get your car serviced? Jon, your thoughts?
 
Wow, Impressive perseverance and commitment to the marque/model! She must be amazing after all that work! Cheers, Russ
 
I'm sure she will be. She is in good hands. Can't wait till Friday.
ORIGINAL: JagdHamster Wow, Impressive perseverance and commitment to the marque/model! She must be amazing after all that work! Cheers, Russ
 
Incredible list of work done, especially when most of it seems to have been done wrongly before you bought the car. Gutting! [&o] I'll update you to "member" now. Pictures have to be small to be posted here (for hosting reasons), but there's no limit on images hosted elsewhere. The best way is to use something like Photobucket: once all the pics are uploaded there all you need to do is copy the direct link, click the "image" button in your post here, and paste the link in the middle. They can be any size and any number, so it's much easier than resizing them all!
 
Tell me about it! Just hope there are no more surprises for a few years now.
ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty Incredible list of work done, especially when most of it seems to have been done wrongly before you bought the car. Gutting! [&o]
 
Glad it's all sorted, mine has just gone though very simller list off mods. Be good to put the cars up against eachother. What boost are you running?
 
Thanks T3rra. Standard boost for wet conditions and 1.2 for all other times. This is based on my last discussion with Mark re boost settings. Not sure if anything has changed since then or not.
 
If JMG book your car into Vey Sport (the local rolling road place), have them book in my car at the same time. They did similar work to my 250 turbo a year ago and I'm yet to have the figures checked. Let's go together, hopefully with Jon/Mark as well, and see what their work has produced.
 
Good shout. Jon, can this be organised?
ORIGINAL: Ewan If JMG book your car into Vey Sport (the local rolling road place), have them book in my car at the same time. They did similar work to my 250 turbo a year ago and I'm yet to have the figures checked. Let's go together, hopefully with Jon/Mark as well, and see what their work has produced.
I know T3rra is trying to organise a 944 RR day in the near future so he may be interested too? His car also has a similar spec.
 
Really interesting reading. Thanks for posting that. Talking generally, I'm often astonished by the time that some cars - especially Turbos - spend off the road being modified and repaired (pre modification). A bit of shame that such lengthy possible 'fun times' are lost. I probably don't understand the complexities hence my surprise. Enjoy the car. I miss my old turbo.
 
Another thing I need to do is to find valves for the switchable Wortec exhaust. The valves became stuck in the open position earlier this year. Whilst the sound is great, I don't need 101db of exhaust note for local driving. Promax fit a blanking plate but I want the valves replaced. I did place an order with Promax in Jan/Feb but haven't heard from them since so presumed they cannot help. JMG are currently investigating this too. Would love to the option of switching between open and closed again. Until then, closed is fine with me.
 
I would be up for that even if it just us 3. Could do run on the same boost. 1.2 but I thought with maf u can run 21psi all day long. = 1.5 bar
 
ORIGINAL: simkin911 Really interesting reading. Thanks for posting that. Talking generally, I'm often astonished by the time that some cars - especially Turbos - spend off the road being modified and repaired (pre modification). A bit of shame that such lengthy possible 'fun times' are lost. I probably don't understand the complexities hence my surprise. Enjoy the car. I miss my old turbo.
Had an S2 in the past which never failed me. Great fun and I loved the colour (Tahoe Blue). Used it as my DD. In fact, I keep an eye out for it but have never seen it in these (or TIPEC) circles since. When I read about the fun and level of personalisation available on turbos, I had to scrath that itch. I thought I found a car which wouldn't need much work but couldn't have been more wrong. I've had a very busy 2013 and although I've missed out on the track day Edd organised and a couple of other bits, its not the end of the world. There will be more track days and trips to Brighton. :) All that said, I agree, turbo's do spend a lot more time in the garage being repaired/upgraded. But turbo owners are able to fine tune their cars that much more and make it that much more personalised. Obviously there are more things that can and do go wrong with turbos so when making so many changes and if significantly increasing performance on 20 year old cars, it is likely lots of bits need to be addressed. Unfortunately, without progressing through each stage, it would be impossible to say from the start with 100% accuracy exactly what is going to change and how long something like this may take. Unless of course you decide from the off that you are going to completely rebuild the engine. Nothing wrong with S2 or other models and each to their own etc, but the way I see it, the next 4-5 years will be mostly regular servicing and not much more. If I hadn't done the above in such a short space of time and stuck with the car, I would have had maybe 3-4-5 years of ongoing problems and fixes and it may even have been more expensive if something was to go wrong on a track day. I'd rather just know things have been fixed and I'm on my way to a few years of trouble free motoring. :)
 
ORIGINAL: T3rra I would be up for that even if it just us 3. Could do run on the same boost. 1.2 but I thought with maf u can run 21psi all day long. = 1.5 bar
I don't trust myself with 1.5 bar. :) Maybe after some driving tuition it is something I could look at - def too big a leap for me at the moment.
 
[link=http://s945.photobucket.com/user/jabrielraja/library/?view=recent&page=1]link to picture album here[/link] I'm waiting for JMG to supply additional pictures. Will add those when I receive them. Will add more pictures when I collect the car.
 
Thank goodness it is all done bar the road tuning, testing and hopefully a dyno power run :eek:) One of the problems with this car, like many we see, there had been lots of nasties and issues, which had been patched up, rather than replaced in the past.. So you find yourself constantly chasing down the next weakest link. I have not seen the history/paperwork of the car, but I do suspect that perhaps a previous owner was trying to have a champagne experience on lemonade money.. Things like the power steering cooler had been patched up rather than replaced, the radiator had been treated to a barrs stop leak (known in the trade as a dog poo) rather than replaced, so even though nothing was immediately obviously wrong, once under pressure and during post work examinations and scrutiny, another part was found to be faulty, with an associated patch up job uncovered. The biggest shock was finding out the engine block was actually an early 944 2.5 non turbo block, that someone had transferred turbo internals into, the head was an early non turbo head, which in itself is not necisarrilly the end of the world, as our 3.0 engines use a 2.7 non turbo head, but in this case it was corroded heavily, did not have sodium filled exhaust valves and was even destined for the scrap pile if we had found it on a lux. Interestingly, in almost standard form, the lux block seemed to have held up and survived, but given some extra performance, a bore split without any sign of detonation and not even on a full power run, it seems the old lux block either had a fault or lux blocks just don't cut it in stock form in a turbo environment. disturbingly, we had a customer in just two days ago, where we noticed that his 944 turbo also has an early lux block.. And both cars received their engines from a place in the midlands, and both engines had been supplied to previous owners as rebuilt turbo engines, no mention of it being a hybrid. So we are now wondering, just how many of these hotch potches are out there. I don't think, in theory, there should be any problems with using a lux block, we have even wondered if in the future turbo blocks dry up completely, would a lux block be ok.. There is a chance that this particular one may have even of been a bad one, which may have had a stress point since it was made, or a crack that had been propagating for years.. So I do not completely discount the use of a lux block, but I do now believe that some additional work, over the obvious mods to make it a turbo block, would be needed to be able to trust one. Again.. Our 3.0 engines use a 2.7 lux, or 944 S2 block, but with these, there is of course a much shallower water jacket, and so a much more supported bore... Who knows, maybe a later lux block is better, and may even start of life as a blank which could be a 2.5 turbo or 2.5 non turbo block.. But the early blocks certainly were different castings, and I believe the castings were different up until at least 1987... So do not be petrified if any of you have a lux block, just keep some caution if yours is a very early lux block! This particular turbo is now running very sweetly, although looking slightly like something from back to the future, with exhaust probes and many sensors attached for datalogging and road tuning, we just need the weather to play ball with the final road mapping tweaking, and as the owner seems keen, we will probably polish off the mapping for full throttle and full boost on the dyno.
 
Jon - assuming that the black car will be ready for a rolling road session on Friday, can you book it up with Andy Vey, booking me in at the same time? You may remember that when Mark and I took my car there after the original upgrades it didn't go well as the DPW was faulty. So it would be good to get some accurate results now the car is running so sweetly. It seems to get better and better with very mile. Do think Pete will want to come over from Brighton as well?
 

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