AnsweredHot!Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPCs!

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jdpef356
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/05 09:49:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby MrDemon 2018/02/05 11:40:54
MrDemon
PDK on track is about the only place you might like it to gain time and be like an F1 driver :-)
 
On the road In a fun car it seems pointless to let the car drive for you, part of owning sports cars is the interaction you get from driving them.
It's a free choice of course but I find PDK cars very dull to own.


  Plus one, I'm with you Mr D

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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/05 15:41:25 (permalink)
I understand your thoughts of course, but we will have to agree to disagree.  Are you two of the "old school drivers" type (like I was) ? - if so I would suggest that you come into the modern era like me and a huge amount of others and embrace change and betterment, when (in my opinion) the change is definitely for the better.  I use the paddles and gear shift pretty much all the time, so it rebuffs your argument of "being dull".  - I love it.  As you say its a free choice.
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/05 17:20:13 (permalink)
PDK on track is great
PDK on twisty , uneven surfaced back roads is great
PDK in traffic is great
Love the manual in my 987 at times , but the 981 PDK more of the time !
Converted at last ! Looking forward to the Boxster E and trust Porsche to make it a 
great drive !
 

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legin
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/05 17:58:31 (permalink)
Im afraid Im with Mr D and jdpe. I have tried to like PDK and paddle autos and had a few in my time AMG,s etc but they always ultimately bore me. I embraced and I didnt take to it but I still drive one as a daily so there you go.
I freely admit Im not from the nintendo generation but the art of working the pedals heal and toe in unison with steering and timing the release points just isnt possible in an auto and to me driving nirvana. Does this make me "old school".
 
I think launch control is a rubbish idea as well and I dont care if pdk is quicker or want and electric car so I guess its true.
 
Those that have embraced technology drive an e car as a daily alongside the porsche ? thought not.
 
 
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/07 22:16:59 (permalink)
Silver Spyder for Spring 
 
low miles high spec great price 
 
http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-boxster-spyder-981-for-sale-gn16vfs
 
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This gorgeous Boxster Spyder (981) has the 6-speed manual gearbox and is presented in Rhodium Silver with black half-leather bucket seats with Alcantara inserts.
 
The 3.8 litre flat six engine develops 375 bhp and standard features include a wind deflector, automatic lights, LED daytime running lights, a switchable sports exhaust, the Sport Chrono Pack with Sport Plus, 20" Boxster Spyder Design wheels and Porsche Stability Management (PSM).
 
Designed for performance, lightness and precision, the Spyder features a lightweight roof, 20mm lowered suspension, Porsche Torque Vectoring, the engine from the 911 Carrera S and a limited slip differential.
 
Factory-fitted options include touchscreen satellite navigation with Bluetooth phone, a DAB digital radio, 'smoked' sports tailpipes, painted air intakes and silver grey seat belts.
It has driven just 1,984 miles from new in 2016.
post edited by daro911 - 2018/02/08 08:32:48

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CLIFFWILKINS
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/08 11:04:53 (permalink)
No hot  seats surely a must for any cab.
post edited by CLIFFWILKINS - 2018/02/08 11:08:31

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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/08 12:28:44 (permalink)
If your in the Hot seat Cliff you need to make sure your feeling Hot!

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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/08 13:22:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dpoynton 2018/02/08 13:23:38
I do find it odd that die hard manual owners keep trying to tell us PDK owners that PDK is not fun to drive on the road. Yet many (if not most) of us have been driving for 30 plus years. Therefore we have spent plenty of time driving manuals, know how to H&T, rev match, set the car up for a bend in the right gear, etc (the die hard manual drivers all seem to think they are driving gods and are the only ones who can do this). Yet, now that we drive a PDK version we still have fun when driving them. So, please, all you die hard manual driving gods please stop telling us we can't have driving fun with PDK, it's only you that don't get fun out of them.

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Dylan1
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/08 13:29:31 (permalink)
Here here Steve ! 
Just because we don’t doesn’t mean we can’t:-)
looking forward to getting back into my GTS spec PDK after 2 weeks in Caribbean!


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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/08 13:54:49 (permalink)
I've been driving a 991 carrera 3.4 PDK while the Spyder is tucked up for the winter months and i was a die hard manual fan but i have really enjoyed the PDK. I do have the paddles which i think is better then the buttons.
 
I love how fast the gear changes are when approaching each red line of each gear and then blip-ing down each gear .. Oh and the cool trick of tapping the accelerator pedal so you come down 1 or 2 gears!
 
These last couple of months have really changed my mind on the PDK box and i do think you need time with the PDK box to really learn it. 10 min test drive isn't enough.

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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/08 17:18:45 (permalink)
Whoopeee !!  I'm so glad all you other peeps have joined the "I love PDK" discussion.  Like turbo jonny above, I have also been converted and I cannot agree more with Steve Brookes, who makes his points exceptionally well.  The manual stick-shift owners on here who obviously prefer manual, seem to assume that they are the only experienced drivers on here and the PDK drivers are not.  I'm from the era where it was mainly only ageing drivers that used autos and I can remember the only sensible way to have an auto back then, was to couple it with a larger engine.  As such most young to middle-aged drivers went for manuals.  So you are correct Steve, most of us Porsche owners are well versed with driving classic sporty manual little numbers back when we were young-go-faster drivers and as such, most of us have good and experienced knowledge of both driving styles.  With this modern PDK technology though, for public road driving, there's no other option for me.
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/08 17:43:13 (permalink)
Sensitive these pdk lovers and good to know they are now out of the closet driving gods.  Of course we are talking opinions not facts about personal preference which I accept is just as valid to mine for instance. The pdk lovers seem to forget the manual brigade have often owned as i have and still do dsg/ pdk but I still prefer them for traffic and tracks. I do find myself heading in the auto direction as I get older and slower.
So all in good hearted banter and whilst we are having some fun  I observe one fact that as our special cars get older the manuals rise to the top in value and therefore desirability.
 
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/08 18:11:01 (permalink)
legin
 
So all in good hearted banter and whilst we are having some fun  I observe one fact that as our special cars get older the manuals rise to the top in value and therefore desirability.
 

Whilst this is a fact regarding residuals I also think as these special cars get even older the concerns on costs for rebuilding a PDK box will be considerably more than an old skool stick shifter 

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Steve Brookes
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/09 14:37:14 (permalink)
legin
 
So all in good hearted banter and whilst we are having some fun  I observe one fact that as our special cars get older the manuals rise to the top in value and therefore desirability.



I completely agree with that fact. It's quite clear from the ads and availability that the manual 987 spyders and Cayman Rs command a premium over the the PDK versions. Which was great for me as my PDK R set me back a lot less than a manual R would have done! And this a complete reversal from the regular boxsters and caymans where the prices for PDK versions are usually higher than manuals. However this can be a little skewed by manual versions of the cooking models often being lower specced than the PDK ones.

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MrDemon
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/11 09:17:57 (permalink)
I am not sure what PDK owners are trying to say To manual owners atm.
 
most manual owners say they prefer it and never say they are god like, why do PDK owners say  daft things, I have always said for me I find them dull because they are easy to drive faster and need less skill to do so, that does not make a manual driver a driving god, I would be slower in a manual if you timed me than a PDK car. 
 
Its quite straight forward driving a auto is less interactive and needs far less skill to lap.
the key to fast laps is braking and changing down gear while braking, it's a skill to do that as fast as possible, with a PDK driver there is very  little skill needed, you brake  , turn in and floor it, if you brake too late it’s a non issue, the car will sort out the gears at some point The abs will let the car turn in and it's all a non issue and easy, PTV will then brake the rears and pull the car back on the racing line.
 
if you brake late in a manual you loose about 2 seconds, panic, go wide and 4 cars pass you.
 
no one is saying PDK drivers are having less fun, what they are doing is talking pants :-) 
and making remarks to “driving gods” is insecure,  kowning how easy it is  to drive a PDK. 
 
It does make me wonder the reasons to switch switch to an easier car to drive though.
 
I have lapped in PDK cars and got out not sweating at pec and laping at quite a speed, I then Lapped a manual and was sweating quite a lot after a few laps, the work load is ten fold, you have to use both arms and legs in time and far more brain power is neeeded to tie every thing in, the net result is heat and hard work.
 
it takes time to learn a skill and be good at some thing, it also means to stay good one needs to always practice at least 4 times a week to stay on top of the game, we are in a play station era where new cars are becoming automated, rws, PTV, e diffs, PDK, abs, auto blips, and while this all helps get a faster lap time doing so in such cars needs less skill.
 
That does not make the manual driver a “driving god”  it just means the manual driver likes a challenge and is willing to learn and improve on a skill set All be it slower.
 
choosing a auto or manual is no right and wrong choice, and really no one cares what any one else drives. And the only people calling names seems to be PDK owners with stupid remarks. 

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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/11 09:59:01 (permalink)
^^^ You are talking about amatuer track driving , and to be fair a track car should be about driver
satisfaction from improving skills , of which one of many others is gear changing . 
 
However , i guess the people on here spend most of their time on the road where we are not racing 
along ( much :) and PDK comes into its own .
 
It seems the modern cars ( ex GT ) are designed for pdk and the manuals are compromised versions of . That is a shame .
 
 
post edited by turbo jonny - 2018/02/11 10:00:30

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Steve Brookes
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/13 17:29:12 (permalink)
MrDemon
I am not sure what PDK owners are trying to say To manual owners atm.
 
most manual owners say they prefer it and never say they are god like, why do PDK owners say  daft things, I have always said for me I find them dull because they are easy to drive faster and need less skill to do so, that does not make a manual driver a driving god, I would be slower in a manual if you timed me than a PDK car. 
 
Its quite straight forward driving a auto is less interactive and needs far less skill to lap.
the key to fast laps is braking and changing down gear while braking, it's a skill to do that as fast as possible, with a PDK driver there is very  little skill needed, you brake  , turn in and floor it, if you brake too late it’s a non issue, the car will sort out the gears at some point The abs will let the car turn in and it's all a non issue and easy, PTV will then brake the rears and pull the car back on the racing line.
 
if you brake late in a manual you loose about 2 seconds, panic, go wide and 4 cars pass you.
 
no one is saying PDK drivers are having less fun, what they are doing is talking pants :-) 
and making remarks to “driving gods” is insecure,  kowning how easy it is  to drive a PDK. 
 
It does make me wonder the reasons to switch switch to an easier car to drive though.
 
I have lapped in PDK cars and got out not sweating at pec and laping at quite a speed, I then Lapped a manual and was sweating quite a lot after a few laps, the work load is ten fold, you have to use both arms and legs in time and far more brain power is neeeded to tie every thing in, the net result is heat and hard work.
 
it takes time to learn a skill and be good at some thing, it also means to stay good one needs to always practice at least 4 times a week to stay on top of the game, we are in a play station era where new cars are becoming automated, rws, PTV, e diffs, PDK, abs, auto blips, and while this all helps get a faster lap time doing so in such cars needs less skill.
 
That does not make the manual driver a “driving god”  it just means the manual driver likes a challenge and is willing to learn and improve on a skill set All be it slower.
 
choosing a auto or manual is no right and wrong choice, and really no one cares what any one else drives. And the only people calling names seems to be PDK owners with stupid remarks. 



OK David you win, I shall try and read your posts by bearing in mind that you are just saying that PDK is dull for you personally rather than you are taking a shy at us PDK owners. It's not insecurity of what we own/drive, it's a reaction to posts like the one below that intimate that we cannot drive or interact with the car:
 
MrDemon
PDK on track is about the only place you might like it to gain time and be like an F1 driver :-)
 
On the road In a fun car it seems pointless to let the car drive for you, part of owning sports cars is the interaction you get from driving them.
It's a free choice of course but I find PDK cars very dull to own.


 
Written like that it comes across as a sly dig at us. However, if I substitute you for I or me, where appropriate, it then comes across as your own thoughts about PDK rather than having a go at us PDK drivers:
 
MrDemon
PDK on track is about the only place I might like it to gain time and be like an F1 driver :-)
 
On the road In a fun car it seems pointless to let the car drive for me, part of owning sports cars is the interaction I get from driving them.
It's a free choice of course but I find PDK cars very dull to own.



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Steve Brookes
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/13 17:46:50 (permalink)
Oh. And for the record, it's perfectly possible to fluff up the gear changes in paddle mode..many a time I've braked hard on track and not flicked down to a low enough gear that the corner really needs and bogged down mid corner as a result. It's only if I use full auto and sport plus mode that the car gets it right every time for me.

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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/13 19:31:30 (permalink)
As both a manual and a PDK driver of many years on road and track I can say in all honesty, both are fun. All my motorsport trophies and awards were won on manual gearbox cars. My current Abarth is also a manual 5 speeder. I love it.
 
Used intelligently, the current evolution of PDK with Sport Chrono really is involving on the track. At Oulton Park track day last November, I used the manual shift paddles to select and time the gear changes exactly as if I were driving a manual. Yes, there is less to think about in terms of arms and legs, but the brain is still computing the braking distances, grip, and turn-in points, as well as when to click the micro switch for the appropriate gear. For me, the involvement is of a different nature to that of a manual shift gearbox, but involvement there certainly is.
 
David, you say it takes no skill to use a PDK to good effect on the track. I would disagree. The racer in me still thinks manual when on a hot lap with my PDK. The only difference being I have less physical work to do which in my particular case is a distinct blessing. If PDK did not exist, I would probably not be taking part in track days.
 
To summarise, PDK is not for the non-track day drivers or unskilled, although there may be a proportion of owners where that is true. It will always be the case that manual gear shifting is a lifetime skill that never goes away. To use PDK effectively on the track in a manual mode is a skill all of its own.
 
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Re: RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! 2018/02/13 19:45:04 (permalink)
Brian excellent summary of the pros & cons between both boxes and if you don't mind sharing would be interested to know your views on all those past flat 6 n/a v your current flat 4 turbo Porsche   

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