Brake lines

[Loafer1976]

Hey all,

I am considering upgrading the brake lines on my 996 Turbo cab tiptronic - has anyone else done that? Can you recommend a manufacturer of the lines?

 

[Loafer1976]

Looking at a few specialists it seems the options are stainless steel from 4/5 manufacturer. I wondered if anyone has made this change?

 

[Hugh_G]

I've not come across these, assuming you mean the hard lines not the flexis? Where can I find any more information about it, as I must admit the few threads recently about corroded lines and loss of brakes makes me nervous about using the brakes in anger and is taking a shine off the car for me.

 

[Loafer1976]

Yeah normally upgrading to braided brake lines often increases pedal feel etc. they can still be flexi’s but stronger, the braiding being reinforcement to the standard hose . (When I used to have a BMW M5 and M4 this was something I was looking at) however starting to look at this for my 996 it appears the upgrade option are "solid” stainless steel hard lines rather than reinforced flexi’s, but I am really trying to find out more. They look pretty cheap to purchase and the brake feel is a little underwhelming on mine and I wonder if this will help

 

[Hugh_G]

It sounds like we have similar issues! Depending where in Kent you are you are welcome to come and try mine, I'm near Tonbridge.
I wondered whether you meant stainless hardlines, google only turned up 1 source and for the rear only. https://rocketdogracing.co.uk/products/porsche-911/porsche-911-996-stainless-braided-brake-line-kit-rear-hard-pipe-replacement-50388335

 

[j7agy]

Forgive me if I’ve misunderstood, but I think you chaps may be talking about two different things.


Larry, am I right is understanding that you are referring to the flexible brake hoses which serve each calliper at each corner of the car? If so, the consensus, as far as I know, is it isn’t worth it and offers know increase in performance/pedal feel. Best to look at the rest of the braking system - fluid for instance.


Hugh, you are referring to the hard brake lines which run around the car and serve those soft lines - they terminate into blocks before the flexible lines. That’s another matter entirely. They are a pig of a job as many found it’s an engine/gearbox out job to replace once corrode/failed. Apparently they can be repaired with flexible, but I’ve no idea how much easier that is. Plus it’s very hard to get to the termination blocks - or whatever they’re called.


Again, apologies if I’ve gotten the wrong idea here.
John

 

[Hugh_G]

We are! I initially thought he meant stainless hardlines, which I hadn't come across, so had a hunt and found those I linked above.

Mine has braided flexi's on the front, and standard on the rear.

 

[j7agy]

That’s an excellent find Hugh. Hoping I don’t have to change mine anytime soon, but will keep note of this link. Thanks!
John

 

[Loafer1976]

I was talking about the flexis’s I was trying to find out if it was worth it to improve feel

 

[paulus]

I was talking about the flexis’s I was trying to find out if it was worth it to improve feel

Stainless steel braided flexis in place of the standard rubber flexi hoses are likely to "feel" better via slightly shortened pedal travel at higher pedal efforts - as they have less expansion at high pressure. They will not reduce the initial pedal travel before the brakes bite / pads start to generate braking.
They will also reduce the rate at which the brake fluid absorbs water & reduces it's boiling point - as the rubber hoses do actually allow water vapour to permeate from the outside to the fluid over time. However, you've got to keep your existing brake fluid & brake hose flexis for many years without bleeding them for the effect to be at all significant - lol. Ie not a "real" benefit on any well maintained vehicle.

The pedal travel reduction at high pedal efforts is noticable on vehicles which have long flexis (but it is not large - maybe 5mm reduction). I've fitted them a few times to Land Rovers & Ford Rally cars which have very long suspension travel to work well off-road.
Due to the long suspension travel they have long flexi hoses. I doubt the benefits on a 911 would be anywhere near as large - but probably would be detectable - especially statically when you can apply far more pedal force than you would ever need while driving.
If you want to fine tune everything you can, I'd do it. It's an easy DIY to fit & re-bleed the system (the ABS modulator wouldn't need re-bleeding as long as the fluid reservoir wasn't allowed to get too low during bleeding)

Ref hard (metal) brake pipes : I'd never convert to stainless steel ! It might be corrosion resistant, but it isn't fatigue / vibration resistant & it's typically a pig to form into bends & not very forgiving if you get a bend wrong.
Far better is the "standard" Copper-Nickel mix that's supplied by many motor factors at very low cost. It's easier to bend & is very long lived & won't corrode. Don't use the "old style" pure copper as it's far too soft / easy to damage. Vehicle manufacturers use the typical painted mild steel because it's cheaper than all alternatives & typically lasts "long enough".

Paul

2004 911 C2 40th Anniversary

 

[jamesekirby]

In terms of replacing the hardlines running front-back, does anyone know how much of a pig that job is? The replacement parts themselves don't seem excessively expensive, but I'm guessing the labour will be the majority of this one.