New S2 owner - hello, and a question

[orly]

Hello!

I just picked up a 1991 silver S2 coupe with blue interior today. 103K miles. So far so good, although I'm slightly daunted about all the things that can go wrong with a 31 year old car! It's my first classic, but not my first Porsche.

The guy I bought it from had done 4K miles in the 4 years he owned it, and has not serviced it during that time. However the previous owner had a service with belts at Porsche Guildford just before he sold it. There is a ton of paperwork which I am still to properly go through. Several of the previous owners clearly really loved this car and looked after it meticulously. There are old fashioned embossed type dymo labels around the car identifying when parts were changed and tyre pressures etc - which makes me slightly me misty eyed, and I will certainly leave them in place...

I will be taking it to Northway to let Ray take some of my money before long no doubt, but am having a look around the car to see what little things I might fix myself.

So here's my question - The engine seems very smooth and happy to rev but I have noticed the revs dropping a bit when turning the steering wheel at low speed - e.g when pulling out of a junction. At very low speeds when parking there is a thrumming noise - fairly loud coming from the area of the power steering pump whilst turning the wheel. I did a quick google and am wondering if the filter at the bottom of the steering fluid reservoir might be clogged? Certainly the fluid is pretty black, but please let me know if I should be looking elsewhere. I think I might also have caught a whiff of hot rubber but the steering pump belt seems in reasonable condition.

One more question - the car has done 103K miles and is still on the first clutch according to the paperwork. The bite point seems quite high, but I don't know what is "normal". There is a very slight vibration on engaging, and I wonder whether I should be thinking about replacement before it fails, to hopefully avoid damaging the flywheel?

Key takeaways from day 1 of ownership.

1. Pop up headlights.
2. 70mph feels quite fast - this is a good thing.
2. The sweet sweet smell of early nineties vinyl.
3. I'm oddly proud of the bruise on my arm from first attempt at refitting the sunroof single handed (I pinched it closing the roof).
4. Perfect for winding hilly country roads. The narrowness of the body is just perfect for small roads, and it appears third gear caters for almost all situations.
5. Surprisingly soft suspension, but with a little roll and still seems very happy to go round bends.

Olly.

 

[GregBarton78]

Welcome to the joys of strange noises!

It sounds like a power steering fluid change may be worth investing £50 in? The drop in Revs is fairly normal I think, mine does it a bit I guess on the basis that the words 'engine management system' were not advanced when these were built. My car had receipts for a new power steering pump when I got it, but I was and am still a bit unconvinced. I changed the fluid which was absolutely rank and that improved weight when parking and noise level a bit. I think The filter is about £25 and you'll need some Dexron III ATF for it. Worth replacing the reservoir while you're at it as it adds 2 minutes and gets rid of a 30 year old part? You should be able to see if there's any scorch marks on the belt as well.

My clutch bite point is fairly high as well, there's a bit of transmission rattle when in neutral which is normal. I did a transaxle fluid change recently which made a huge difference to noise levels. I think I also have a noisy clutch release bearing but given a clutch change is £3k, I'm just going to run that until it's screamingly obvious the clutch is cooked.

I share your observations on the experiences - a set of shocks and rebushing everything transformed mine.

 

[GregBarton78]

NB - The driving experience was a lot better, but I've not driven mine since October because it looks like this...
https://drive.google.com/...x3beX/view?usp=sharing

 

[orly]

NB - The driving experience was a lot better, but I've not driven mine since October because it looks like this...
https://drive.google.com/...x3beX/view?usp=sharing

Oh!

I'll get a power steering reservoir and some fluid and look forward to the likely seized fasteners, split hoses and tears. It's all fun though isn't it?

The steering seems a bit better today. I have done about 100 miles since picking up the car, and seeing as it only did 4,000 in the last 4 years I'm wondering if a good run in the countryside might have done some good. I'm already in love with this car!
I spent about 5 hours just cleaning today. Lots of little jobs on the list.

1. Rear lock doesn't release boot, but switch in driver footwell does. Guessing the lock has a switch in it which may need some attention - certainly it has cables (3 wires) going to the lock.
2. Passenger window switch doesn't work for lowering window, but does for raising. I'll have a look at that when I do 3.
3. Replace speakers with new alpine drivers from jmgporsche (existing drivers have tears and sound terrible).
4. Replace head unit. I don't think it's the original unit anyhow, and it's not very good.
5. Adjust headlight aim - seem a bit high when adjusted to lowest position.

 

[Eldavo]

2/3 - you can disassemble the switched and clean the contacts, sounds like this is all you need. Please don’t buy the speakers from JMG, you can get them literally anywhere else (i.e. here https://wooliesworkshop.com/products/porsche-924-944-door-speakers-pair-alpine-new-rec?variant=19809137000521&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyqTKlauz-QIVB_hRCh3s9w_lEAQYAyABEgLMp_D_BwE) for a lot less too. I’m mindful of the forum name and shame policy but in many years of being in the 944 community I couldn’t send anyone to JMG in good conscience.

 

[orly]

Thanks.

Yeah, I did think I could do a bit more research and find the driver part numbers and get them elsewhere, but I was tired, and excited with my new toy like a kid so I already bought them...

 

[Waylander]

The power steering tank is the same as multi BMW Myele make a replacement which is much cheaper than Porsche and the same part
i agree with eldavo, I could not send anyone to JMG either, the replacement steering shaft they do for £200 is a £30 in parts refurb

 

[Diver944]

Congrats on the purchase [] These cars don't really like sporadic use so you may well find quite a few things 'bed themselves back in' once you start driving it regularly. Lot's of cars only ever have the engine oil changed but regular changing of the other fluids will work wonders - gearbox oil, brake fluid, coolant etc as well as the PAS fluid as already mentioned.

I first bought my S2 at 95k miles back in 1998 and to me the clutch felt a bit juddery at the bite point and much higher than the modern cars I had driven before so I thought I would be replacing it soon. I finally had it replaced it at 230k miles in 2018 when the engine was rebuilt, it did feel amazingly light and positive when it was replaced though [8D]

 

[Eldavo]

The power steering tank is the same as multi BMW Myele make a replacement which is much cheaper than Porsche and the same part
i agree with eldavo, I could not send anyone to JMG either, the replacement steering shaft they do for £200 is a £30 in parts refurb

There you go, £14 delivered:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221664343309?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=oVHWpHOgT3q&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[orly]

The power steering tank is the same as multi BMW Myele make a replacement which is much cheaper than Porsche and the same part
i agree with eldavo, I could not send anyone to JMG either, the replacement steering shaft they do for £200 is a £30 in parts refurb

There you go, £14 delivered:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221664343309?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=oVHWpHOgT3q&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Thanks! I appreciate that.

 

[orly]

Congrats on the purchase [] These cars don't really like sporadic use so you may well find quite a few things 'bed themselves back in' once you start driving it regularly. Lot's of cars only ever have the engine oil changed but regular changing of the other fluids will work wonders - gearbox oil, brake fluid, coolant etc as well as the PAS fluid as already mentioned.

I first bought my S2 at 95k miles back in 1998 and to me the clutch felt a bit juddery at the bite point and much higher than the modern cars I had driven before so I thought I would be replacing it soon. I finally had it replaced it at 230k miles in 2018 when the engine was rebuilt, it did feel amazingly light and positive when it was replaced though [8D]

Thanks Paul! The car is already feeling better, but part of that is me getting used to driving it and the sounds and vibrations probably. I'm really enjoying it so far, which is a good thing as developing a bond this early will help with the pain of future bills []

Brake fluid, coolant and gearbox oil were changed 4 years / 4,000 miles ago. Clutch fluid and power steering fluid are both very dark and I will definitely change them both.

 

[944Turbo]

The power steering tank is the same as multi BMW Myele make a replacement which is much cheaper than Porsche and the same part
i agree with eldavo, I could not send anyone to JMG either, the replacement steering shaft they do for £200 is a £30 in parts refurb

There you go, £14 delivered:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221664343309?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=oVHWpHOgT3q&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

added to alternate parts thread as I didn't recall seeing this before!
thanks,
Tony

 

[orly]

I have had a bit of a tinker. The passenger side window switch is sorted. I was surprised how heavy duty the contacts are until I realised they actually switch the window motor current (rather than a relay). An easy job - just a clean up of the contacts and regreasing the path the little ball bearings act onto the contacts via.

I have also resprayed the rear wiper arm which was a bit corroded and fitted a new wiper. Much tidier...

For the speakers - well it turns out aftermarket speakers were fitted all round. 6" coaxial in the rear, in a beautifully hand routed wooden adapter (all hidden behind the quarter panel trim). Fronts are Kenwood KSC-3500. My guess is this work was done in the nineties. All of the foam speaker surrounds have failed (all 4 speakers), but the tweeter in the fronts still sounds very good. I suspect they were hideously expensive when new.

So I have some replacements coming for the rears, but the fronts are a bit more of a challenge. The Kenwood KSC-3500 completely replaces the grille, and I don't have the originals. I could buy some OEM replacements (about £120) but I'm slightly worried that the Kenwood units are larger, and some scars from the old solution will show if I fit original grilles. The Kenwood grilles are 8x5.5". Would someone be so kind as to measure the dimensions of stock grilles please? I couldn't find that info on the web. I might just replace the 5" circular drivers in the Kenwood units rather than going back to stock grilles.

Another question - The handbrake doesn't hold very well, and I think it's working better one side than the other. It might need new shoes. I guess I have to get the discs and pads off to be able to check? Anyhow, I wondered if it was worth just trying the old trick of pulling the handbrake on whilst moving slowly to remove a bit of friction compound / clean things up a bit. When I did so, quite a loud clang... What could that be? Any ideas. I tried it a couple of times, and the same happened both times.

The Porsche immobiliser is a bit temperamental. It works most of the time (insert little chip into slot next to keyhole on the dash, wait for 3x faint beeps and you're set to go) but a couple of times it has got into a strange state where there is some regular clicking of relays in the relay/fuse box (similar to indicator frequency) that lasts for about 20 seconds every time you switch the ignition on, and it won't start in that condition, even after the relay clicking has stopped. Using the keyfob to lock then unlock the car seems to fix it - unless that's just a coincidence, but I don't think so.

Still really enjoying my new car.

 

[GregBarton78]

Re: Handbrake, Easy enough to service and tidy up. Clang is probably something bouncing around in there.

Rough sequence is a case of pull the discs and pads off, then its a standard cable operated brake shoe inside the rear hubs.

Replacement shoes are cheap enough although unlikely to be worn out. What is worth doing is stripping the assembly down to make sure nothing is seized and then ensuring the cables are tensioned up correctly.

If you're unlucky you need new handbrake cables which is firmly in the "Arsehole" category of jobs.

I'll measure up my speaker grilles when mine comes back from the paint shop or if I get a few minutes to pop down there to inspect progress this week.

 

[orly]

Thanks Greg. I appreciate that.

Saw quite a few S2s at Radwood today, as well as some other pretty Porsches.

Olly.
.

 

[Diver944]

There is a really good guide to adjusting the parking brake in the Clarks Garage workshop manual:

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/repair-procedure-index3.htm

Sadly it looks like the helpful pictures that used to be there have disappeared.

If you do have to remove the rear disks make sure you leave the parking brake off or bits of broken spring will go everywhere (don't ask me how I know ). Good to hear you are still enjoying it.

 

[Diver944]

The original immobilisers were fitted by Porsche GB upon import and were supplied by https://www.hamilton-palmer.co.uk/

You used to be able to get spare sockets and fobs from Hamilton Palmer (the contacts wear over time), but I'm sure I heard recently they have finally started to discontinue some 30 year old systems. Worth a call though.

A lot of people have had total failure of their original immobiliser [] and had to have them properly removed and a replacement fitted. 30 year old circuits eventually degrade.

 

[orly]

I'm pretty sure the immobiliser issue I have is related to the fact the car used to have an alarm. Unfortunately it was only partially removed. I have radio remote locking keyfobs which may have been part of the alarm system, or perhaps another aftermarket system. I can date them as being reasonably modern in that they have blue LEDs, but then they could just be replacement fobs with an older system. They work well, and I'd quite like to retain them.

When I got the car it had a couple of ultrasonic alarm sensors in the cabin, but the wires had been cut off. I suspect the siren is also gone - I can't see it anywhere and certainly haven't heard it. When I get the situation of relays clicking and no start my suspicion is that the clicking would have originally been flashing the indicators. That said, the indicators do flash when I use the radio keyfobs so I'm not sure if it is a separate system from the alarm. Either way, pressing the unlock button on the keyfob does seem to solve the immobiliser problem reliably so I'm not overly worried about that at the moment.

I did remove the glovebox and noticed there are some aftermarket fuses, and I think a little deeper toward the firewall some aftermarket relays. The good news is that it looks like a professional fitting job.

More concerning is the fact I have an unacceptable parasitic battery drain. I had a suspicion that this might be the case when I noticed the +ve battery connector was loose making me wonder if the previous owner disconnected it frequently. Although normally you would disconnect the -ve, it's hardly a surprise with a car you can't open the boot on with no battery connected, as you can probably open a door, pull down the rear seats and flip the carpet up to put the +ve cable back on the battery. So I put a clamp meter on the battery -ve cable and measured 250mA when closed up and locked.

I didn't have much time to troubleshoot this, but I did go down the short line of fuses - pulling the fuse marked central locking (and other stuff I can't remember) reduced the drain by about 80mA (which I'm hoping is the radio remote locking system). To find the remaining 170mA I need to go down the longer line of fuses... I'll let you know what I find. For now I'm using a 12W solar charging panel to keep the battery topped up when parked. That won't work in the winter though. TBH until I have time to spend on this problem, disconnecting the battery when not using the car for extended periods is a reasonable workaround.

For the audio I replaced the rears with a pair of good quality 6.5 inch coaxial drivers, and replaced the front 5 inch drivers in the aftermarket front Kenwood units - also with coaxials (the Kenwood tweeters remain, but are not wired). I replaced the head unit with a 4x50W RMS Sony. It's sounding pretty good! At some point I might replace the Kenwood units, either with original grilles, or perhaps something custom made, but for now they are OK.

I'm going to add a few USB connectors - one hidden behind the radio to use with a phone, and another I will mount with velcro in the storage bin under the head unit. 2x high current USB and 1x USB3-C in a single 3 inch barrel. I didn't think I could use that space as I have no intention of hacking into the trim. I want to keep the car as original as I can. However I noticed a previous owner has already made a hole in the bottom of that storage unit, so I may as well reuse it. I think I will take a feed from the cigarette lighter socket, but switched via an opto isolator and 30A relay using the switched supply to the head unit to switch the relay. That way power to USB sockets is removed when the key is out, but I have a nice high current supply to ensure nothing gets hot.

Anyhow, enough of the war and peace. Minor issues aside I've been really enjoying the drive. Big smile and enthusiastic wave from a 928 at Knowl Hill today


Thanks for all of the advice. I really appreciate it. Looking forward to heading over to an R19 meet some time soon.

Olly.

 

[CBschnell]

Hi Olly
Nice update on the early days of ownership. I think I looked at your car just before you bought it - sounds very familiar especially with the history and passenger door window switch. Was it on a farm down a single track in Lambourn area? If so it is a lovely car. I went away for the weekend to think about it and it was gone! Snooze you lose...
I did find another one and will hopefully pick that up this week.
Enjoy it
Chris

 

[orly]

Hi Olly
Nice update on the early days of ownership. I think I looked at your car just before you bought it - sounds very familiar especially with the history and passenger door window switch. Was it on a farm down a single track in Lambourn area? If so it is a lovely car. I went away for the weekend to think about it and it was gone! Snooze you lose...
I did find another one and will hopefully pick that up this week.
Enjoy it
Chris

Yes, sounds like the same car. Someone had looked at it earlier the same day which might well have been you. I had discussed the owner driving it down to Northway at Aldermaston for a quick check over, but the logistics were getting a bit complicated as Ray wanted it overnight so in the end I decided to take the risk of buying it without the benefit of a pair of expert eyes. Whether I regret that we shall see when Ray gives it a service in October!

One thing I forgot to add is that I have a small vibration in the steering wheel at motorway speeds, but it is not always present. I took it to my local tyre place hoping it might just need the front wheels balancing. They were very slightly out, but not enough to be causing the vibration. When up on the ramp though it turns out there is a bit of play on the n/s inner tie rod end. The young lad looking at the car was not much more than half the age of the car, but he was so excited to see it he refused to charge me anything for the wheel balance.

I have to say I have had more folk pop over for a chat about the 944 than any other car I have owned. Sure, every time I fix something I find 2 more things that need doing, but at the moment at least that is part of the fun!