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Starting issues

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benmkrieger

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I have waded through a number of threads but wanted to ask some advice as I think the car is acting peculiar.

Since having it in Nov 20, it has never had a start issue.

Drove it the other week, parked up and that was it (drive it a couple of times a week). 3 hours later, I went to move it and it wouldn't start. Cranks but doesn't catch.

I tested the fuel pump fuse as I have had this in the past on a 911. It was fine. So I put power to the fuel pump and it is working. SO I tried putting permanent power to the fuel pump and cranking it and it still wouldn't start. After fiddling for a while, I noticed that the interior lights were on but the headlights weren't working. So I decided to just jump start in a last ditch attempt and it works and fires right up. Drove it for a quick round the block, came back, parked up, put the battery on charge and left it.

Next day, full battery, no start again.

Checked the relay and with the casing open, I can see and hear it make the 2 clicks from the 2 solenoids.

When I put a test probe on the fuel pump now, with ignition, it is not on permanently but it does pulse power as the engine cranks over.

I wondered if anyone could advise before I start with the route of the crank sensors as this will be a pain for me to do on the driveway as I can't get it to the garage currently.

Could there be something else I am missing? Maybe something has just come disconnected.

It seemed to have literally just "happened" with no reason.

Thanks in advance.

Ben

 
The DME relay may have a bad solder joint, which is not uncommon. Can be fixed by re-soldering all the connections. Best advice is to always carry a spare in the car.
 
Other common causes of non starting 3.2s are wonky immobilisers and crank position sensors that fail with with age.
 
Hello Ben, Geoff may be on the money although due to the the intermittent nature of the fault I'm thinking it may be one of the two crankshaft reference or speed sensor. These tend to break down and give intermittent service. They are at the end of two of the three grey wires in the engine compartment that disappear down inboard of the nearside wheel arch and suffer the rigours of all the abuse this area can be subjected to through all seasons. Back in 2014 they were available from Porsche £177ea and Independants. I got mine at Type911 for about £55 each in 2014. Both sensors are Part No. 911 606 215 01. If you are unlucky you may need to replace the carrier too, luckily I was offered a reconditioned one at the time my sensor were replaced, Word of caution, the carrier bolts may have been there a long time and can shear so good to have replacement bolts at hand and the skill to remove the broken part left in the bellhousing hole. Only one of my sensors had corroded but changed both as a precaution. If you are going to do the job yourself I recommend looking at the Bentley Service Manual, Porsche 911 Carrera, page 288 - 292. Steve
Edit: Felix (IndischRot) is thinking the same as this but I missed his post while I was checking back on my experience.
 
Don't forget to set the air gap between sensor and speed reference teeth
looks like ring gear teeth but not must be 1mm gap. If set wide will cause
bad running. To close will did destroy the sensors.


Charles.
 
Thanks everyone for the help so far.

Opened up the DME. Looks absolutely fine. No bad joints and looks spot on.

Put it back and kept casing off. Ignition on and first relay clicks. Crank and the second relay clicks.

And weirdly, it fired right up!

I wonder if it was just a little stuck?! Can that happen?

Thanks again




 
Look at solder joints under magnification you will probably see a very fine line/crack around or partially around one of the joints. while you have it apart, might as well put a soldering iron on and retouch them all anyway. purchase a spare anyway as it will let you down again just at a most inconvenient time!
 
After my last update, I had it starting on the key a hand full of times.

A few days later aBd I’ve gone to drive it and the same thing again. Cranks and won’t fire.


The relay clicks twice as it should. Fuel pump comes on as it should.


the one thing I do notice is that a handful of attempts and the battery is hugely weakened.

Before I get stuck into the sensors, wondered if it could be a tired battery? Maybe affected by the recent cold and damp?

Any advice is appreciated.


Thanks
 
I suppose the thing to do before you delve is have the battery checked with the proper tool - I think it's called a galvanometer - to check it under load; a multi-meter doesn't do this, afaik. If you can get it to somewhere like Halfords they'll do it, normally for free, if they think you will buy a replacement from them if found to be faulty. Most garages, though, should have this tool; you can get them quite reasonably priced from eBay but it's probably something you will use very infrequently.

I'm having starting issues with my 993 - been ongoing for the last year or so. Starter just clicks. Have had a new starter and Bosch battery but problem still persists. Managed last year to get it to the chap who does the servicing and it started on the button for him over the two days in his care - he checked the car and proclaimed there was nothing wrong. Since it's a garage queen I'm wondering now if the lack of use is its downfall, even though wired to a battery tender. Has let me down once late last year and had to be pushed off the forecourt after refuelling but later restarted on the key after about 20-mins of occasional trying waiting for a breakdown truck.

On recommendation last year, I cleaned the earth from the battery to the body (and again yesterday) and it did, at the time, seem to make a difference but not this year so far.

I had the battery checked with the 'tool' this week and it showed up to be fine but I do have this nagging doubt...

BTW one of the recommended battery suppliers (again on eBay) from another Porsche web site is Tayna, should you decide to go that route.

Apologies if preaching to the converted concerning tools and battery suppliers!
 
Hi Ben

Also on 3.2 Carreras the earth lead from gearbox to body by gearbox cross member
often rotten with green mould.
But i don't think this is your problem. Change the two sensors.

 
An update.

Thanks to both for the added info.

So when I’d tried this morning I did try a jump pack with no joy.


Before I left I put the cad back on the charger. It’s a decent noco charger.


Been out all day (in the 912) and I’ve got back and wanted to try again. I left the charger still connected, turned the key and it fired instantaneously.


Current battery is an exide excell EB712. 71ah 670a. Don’t know the age.

But after being on charge all day and charger left connected, it quickly fired makes me think the battery is not flat but perhaps just but working properly anymore. Perhaps it can‘t hold charge.

Chas3.2 you’re right but want to exhaust everything else first really. Have access to trade account at a motor factor so battery price won’t be obscene. Will prob end up with a bosch s5 or perhaps a Yuasa.


Thanks Les. Might buy one. With a fee projects always on the go it might be worth it. Would confirm the above suspicion possibly. Never used a tayna battery before.


The fact that on charge it’ll start makes me really think battery is next route.


thoughts welcomed!

Ben

 
Looks like you are making progress albeit slowly - only wish I was.
For the record, Tayna don't make batteries afaik just sell them and have most common makes in their stock. Apparently their delivery is very quick, warranties good
and generally excellent to deal with. I'm currently on a Bosch from ECP (already replaced on warranty once) but may try Tayna if I decide on a new one as I'm not confident that the ECP ones haven't been hanging about in storage too long before purchase. But if you have a trade contact you are already ahead of the rest of us. :)









 
I used Tayna to buy a Bosch S5 recently. Good price, arrived next day. Informative web site and good customer service who answered my questions straight away. Never used them before but had seen them recommended.
 
T911UK I think you're right. I have to suck it up.

Battery tester showing all good.

Left on charge and it starts for a few hours. The next morning nothing again.

Today nothing. Changed the battery anyway as the one in there is only "OK" so it now has a really decent battery.

Still no start. Pushed the cars about so I could get another out the garage and out this one in and it started after having been in the garage for an hour.

Maybe the sensors have been impacted by the cold?

Anyway, checked the old sensors and they are all in tact and don't appear to be in bad condition. Don't look that old.

But I have ordered new ones anyway. I can access everything OK and looks like I can slide the sensors out the bracket without having to remove it.

With the old sensors out, I will measure the distance from the tip to the shoulder and if it is the same, then will slide the new ones in and assume the gap is still correct.

Trying to avoid more complicated work whilst lying on a concrete floor. If I need to gap them then I will trailer it up and take it to my mechanic where it can go on the ramps.

I am going to leave the new battery in anyway as a good measure.


 
Hi Ben
If you are going to fit the new sensors there must be a 1mm air gap
between the sensor and speed reference teeth looks like starter ring gear
teeth but not. To achieve this glue a 1mm thick washer to the bottom
of an old sensor fit to the housing and then to the engine block
pushing sensor to speed teeth. tighten 10mm bolts.
Mark witch sensor goes to witch plugs in the engine bay.
Get this wrong it won't start. Ask me how i know.

Regards
Charles
 
Continued thanks to everyone.

So am I wrong to assume the existing sensors are in the correct place?

The washer scares me a little. What happens if it comes off and drops?!

I presume I only need to fit a washer to the lower sensor?

Saw some guides that suggest using an old sensor to stick the washer to but that seems to make no sense as surely the new sensor could be different size to the old?
 
Hi

The old sensors should be in the right place.

I have one all ready done can post to you.

I fear i may have given you too much info.

They won't be a different size.

Charles
 
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