Determining Service Requirements

[smithyithy]

Hello all,

My 2009 987.2 is due a minor service which I have priced up with a well-known local Indy, and I'm trying to determine what (if any) additional work is required.

I had my clutch replaced last year at the same Indy, who at the time (when the rear wheels were off) informed me that the rear disks and pads were getting low, and the rear brake pipe / line was showing some corrosion, so I made note of this for when the next service came around.

I've only done a couple thousand miles since then due to WFH. Last week the car had its MOT at a good local garage. It passed, but the tester and I were chatting and while the car was up on the ramp, showed me a couple of things of note (these weren't considered advisories - or whatever they are called now) - these things being corrosion of the rear brake pipes, as noted previously by the Indy, and uneven wear to the inside of the front disks. The rear disks / pads condition wasn't mentioned..

Safest bet of course would be to have all the brakes refreshed - certainly I intend to have the pipes done regardless, but with one garage noting the rear disks / pads, and another garage only noting the front disks, I don't really know where I stand in terms of what really needs doing.

As I say I have a price for the minor service (£250), I'm also having tracking / alignment done (£180), and at a minimum the rear lines (~£200 if it includes fluid change?), so I'm maybe looking at north of £600, with disks/pads/sensors being an additional ~£350 per axle. I don't want to skimp on maintenance but also don't want to be 'sold' work that could be done later down the line, if that makes sense.

Could anyone advise on how best to approach this and maybe how to determine the necessity of work? I have attached a photo showing the uneven wear on the inside of the front disk, and one showing the general condition of a rear disk.

Many thanks.

 

[911hillclimber]

I have a 987.2 Boxster, 69k Miles.

Following your info I would get the lot done.

replacing rusty pipes will involve brake fluid change during the work.

Service and alignment, good idea to get done.

brake discs and pads? Yep all those too.

The car will be very nice to drive after.

Brake change is not a big labour cost, £300 per axle sounds right to me, I did my fronts myself, be sure they fit good quality parts, but as a specialist they should know best.

Time to bite the bullet and resolve these issues, the pipe change is the worst on your list imho.

 

[AndrewCS]

£180 for alignment is expensive, I pay £110 using a Hunter system

Brake pipe corrosion ... breakdown of the coating can look bad but with negligible loss of wall thickness, worth rubbing it down to check and if OK recoating / painting

Front disc - the pad is not making full contact, possible caliper issue ?

Rear disc - well worn, with a significant `lip` at the outer edge hence probably below minimum thickness spec.

 

[smithyithy]

Thanks guys.

After the MOT we did try to clean up the brake lines with a wire brush but it does appear more than just surface corrosion. I think, looking at the price of those lines compared to the bigger items, I'd like to just replace them regardless.

I've asked for a finalised quote for minor service; alignment; front disks, pads and sensors; rear lines; fluid as required.

Hopefully get that booked in soon.

Next on the list will be new front tyres ready for summer, hopefully I can clock up more miles!

 

[AndrewCS]

Tyres before alignment ... []

 

[smithyithy]

Tyres before alignment ... []

Is that because changing the tyres will affect the alignment, or are you saying to prioritize tyres over an alignment?

 

[AndrewCS]

I didn`t phrase that correctly ...

By having the alignment done when the new tyres are fitted, you ensure that they start their life with the best possible footprint. Leading to optimum performance - life

 

[Motorhead]

Chris,

I’d agree with all the above comments. Judging by the state of the brake discs I’d replace all the discs, pads, wear sensors and the pad dampers too … something often overlooked! Clearly there’s something not right with the inner front pad to get that sort of wear pattern and that needs to be investigated.

Incidentally yellow calipers usually are associated with Porsche ceramic brakes, which clearly yours aren’t so they’ve most likely been repainted at some time. Maybe that’s causing a piston to stick?

As Andrew says if you’re planning to change the tyres it would be sensible to get the geometry set-up at the same time.

Jeff

 

[911hillclimber]

The reason I posted my thoughts is that I went through almost the same situation a few years back post a service at my Indie, Zuffenhaus who have never tried to sell me more work on the Boxster.

I had really bad (advisory MoT) on the front inner disc rust, rears were good, pipes ok but the front tyres had worn badly on their inner edges.

Suggested plan was

Wait for the low use winter to pass by.

Fit new front discs, pads, dampers as Jeff has said (DIY in my case)

Take the car to them for minor Service (just oil change) pre spring time season, also full factory spec 4 wheel alignment using a local well equipped (Hunter I think) shop.

Come home and fit new front tyres, Goodyear in my case to match the Goodyear N specs on the rear.

All done, and the car is fabulous, MoT no advisories, and full Peace of Mind.

Oddly, no noticeable difference in braking, but the brakes were good before despite the inner face rust.

 

[Motorhead]

Chris,

Some good advice there from Graham.

Just to add that from your pics it’s difficult to see how big a lip there is on the disc edges to be able to gauge the amount of wear. Have a look at this post to see the minimum allowable disc thickness … it may be possible to grind the disc using a portable grinding machine, assuming you can find someone local to do the job.

https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=963070

Jeff

 

[smithyithy]

Thanks again all, great advice,

Motorhead, you are correct re. the yellow calipers, the previous owner had them done at some point, so perhaps that has caused some sticking, although the issue is identical on both sides (I only photographed the one side). Hopefully if that is causing an issue then it can be addressed when the disks and pads are done.

The tyres, front and rear actually have decent life left in them (Michelin all round), however the outer edge of the front tyres is showing noticeable cracking / deterioration so will be changed as soon as possible (photo below).

I will order those online and have them done by my local place (next to where the MOT was done, luckily within walking distance), should be shortly before or after the service.

Can anyone confirm which to go for? Do I need N-rated or can I go for alternative (sticking with Michelin):

Pilot Sport 2 (N-rated): https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Sport-PS2/235-35-ZR19--91Y--XL-N2/R-279978

Pilot Sport 4 (non-N-rated): https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Sport-4/235-35-ZR19--91Y--XL/R-392577

Pilot Sport 4S (non-N-rated): https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Sport-4S/235-35-ZR19--91Y--XL/R-339147

 

[Twinfan]

Non-N-rated PS4Ss would get my vote. Superb tyres and as you're not running the extended Porsche warranty you don't need to worry about the N-rating.

 

[smithyithy]

Kinda my thoughts too, if it were a new car then I'd look to stick with N-rated but I think in this situation the 4S might be the choice!

 

[Motorhead]

If you don’t have the Porsche Extended Warranty there’s no requirement to have an N-rated tyre Chris, and the Michelin PS2 is a very old tyre design. Right now the Michelin PS4S seems to be the preferred choice, and it’s an up-to-date design and compound, although the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric tyre has its fans. Pirellis seem to get a bad press but I think their latest P-Zero tyres (which are N-rated) are reported to be an improvement.

You can check the age of your tyres from the markings https://www.kwik-fit.com/tyres/information/tyre-age and if they’re more than 7-years old you should think about replacing them anyway, especially if as you’ve noted they’re cracking.

Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

Motorhead, you are correct re. the yellow calipers, the previous owner had them done at some point, so perhaps that has caused some sticking, although the issue is identical on both sides (I only photographed the one side). Hopefully if that is causing an issue then it can be addressed when the disks and pads are done.

That’s very odd Chris if it’s occurring on both front discs. Is that wear pattern only on the inside of the discs? The wear should of course extend to the periphery of the disc, so clearly only just over half of the pad is in contact with the disc; almost as though the piston is rocking in its cylinder.

Jeff

 

[smithyithy]

It is odd Jeff. The uneven wear is the same on both front disks, and yes only on the inside face - only just spotted it during the MOT, I wouldn't have known otherwise as I haven't been under the car yet. I asked on Pistonheads if anyone had experienced similar and someone did say it's not uncommon on 986/996/987/997. Being only my first Porsche I can't speak from any previous experience. This is a photo that user posted of his disk prior to having them replaced:

I checked my tyres earlier and noted the version and ages:

Front Left: Michelin PS3, 04/2017

Front Right: Michelin PS3, 04/2017

Rear Left: Michelin PS2 N-rated, 02/2017

Rear Right: Michelin PS2 N-rated, 05/2018

 

[Motorhead]

Rusting on the inner faces of the discs is quite common Chris and it’s always a good idea to take the car for a short drive and apply the brakes after washing it to clear water from the discs. The discs are prone to rusting very quickly though … obviously due to Porsche’s choice of cast iron alloy.

Jeff

 

[smithyithy]

I do need to get into the habit of doing that, to be fair. I give it a good clean usually weekly if it's been driven, and inevitably once it dries, the face of the disks rust up very quickly

 

[Brian_Innes]

Regarding N - rated Michelin PS4S tyres.

To the best of my knowledge N- rated PS4S are only available in 20" sizes.

The 19" PS4S are generic tyres which have a different sidewall profile compared to the 20" N-rated PS4S. I recall comparing the two types side by side at a track day back in 2019 and the different construction between the two sidewalls was significant.

I agree with the previous comments about fitting the PS4S tyre as it is by far the best performer for your Cayman. The PS2 tyre is old technology now.

Definitely do the geo alignment check after fitting new tyres.

Brian

 

[smithyithy]

No worries, tyres are ordered so should be fitted in a few days (before the service - just awaiting final confirmation on that booking)

Many thanks for the advice chaps