964 product reviews?

[colin129]

It's a great idea!

I'm not sure how much I would be able to contribute though.

I expect it will take a while to get traffic to this Forum back up, because a lot of 964 enthusiasts don't really see this as the place to come, anymore. Which is a shame. It needs someone to drive it who is not going to be demotivated if it takes a while to get things moving.

Thanks for you recent contribution to PP (I'm only up to August), but a more active PP 964 section, I am sure, will ignite people's interest again.

There are plenty of knowledgeable owners who would be happy to contribute, I am sure, it just needs someone, like I said, to drive it.

 

[MarkGolf]

Hi All,

I'm looking in to some new ideas for the 964 group. I really really want to get a meet together or a drive but it's just a no go and under the club banner, there is a limit on number (6). It just isn't ideal right now.

What do you want from the club?

I am keen to get more traffic through the forum, I have used forums for years and they have saved my arse countless times when troubleshooting issues, looking for parts, what's good, what's bad etc, so I am a big fan. They have been priceless in my time of tinkering with cars. This forum is particularly quiet, which is surprising when the member base is a decent size and the number of 964 registered owners isn't shy either. Other forums have a decent flow so why shouldn't this one?

Anyway, one idea I had was to do product reviews, possibly for the mag too but a separate post in a section of the 964 forum (under or within FAQs), I've bought various things, from Porsche or aftermarket and some pictures, descriptions and maybe DIY, just to share thoughts on the items. It is something we can all do if willing and great to get more info out there and shared.

It can be anything such as fog light ducts, where from, how much, what is the quality like.. Brake discs from euro car parts, tyres, anything and everything that can be fitted to a 964, it would all be of help.

Is this a good idea or a waste of time?

Cheers,
Mark

 

[daviespaj]

Hi Mark and All

I think its a good idea to try and get input into the forum. I have been disappointed in the level of input here. Not wishing to be controversial but many owners of more modern models just have them serviced at their chosen OPC. I would have thought that given the age of the 964 more people would be hands on?

I had booked on the Technical Seminar (Swindon) but that was cancelled due to Covid. I was really looking forward to discussing technical issues and techniques.

As an example I have read two different views on oil leaks around the cylinder barrels. Some say you have to replace with the newer style with sealing ring, others have mentioned machining the sealing ring groove into the older style cylinders? I understood the main issue to be about the amount (or lack of) material at the cylinder top allowing the head to flex and leak?

Cheers Peter

 

[mcgc0]

Think part of the problem (hate to say it) being many PCGB members care more about keeping the garage queen spotless and looking good and less about hard driving, or just using the car as intended. Focus more on shine and polish awards (zzzz) less on grubby hands, banged knuckles and used tools. Admittedly many owners maybe probably don't feel confident enough to get stuck in to their aircooled workings. I understand that.

Personally, a 964-only event or similar isn't always what inspires me (other than those who mod or 'improve' their rides). Open invite aircooled events work well - interesting mix of attitudes and end results across the range. More often than not though the 964 is the model you see the most of in visitor parking. Boxengasse again was a good example. Events I'm more likely to want to visit are those also along the line of Caffeine & Machine type - brunch style meet ups with other aircooled's (and watercooled too). What if you 'tag' along with some other event - that would add more event clout too no? Appreciate that you might be head scratching Mark for some ideas (and even locations) and it's important to bring this up on an otherwise 'old school' PCGB view point. I am definitely not wanting to offend just pointing out activity differences between owners, enthusiasts, forums etc. Hope another view point helps.

As an example I have read two different views on oil leaks around the cylinder barrels. Some say you have to replace with the newer style with sealing ring, others have mentioned machining the sealing ring groove into the older style cylinders? I understood the main issue to be about the amount (or lack of) material at the cylinder top allowing the head to flex and leak?

Cheers Peter

I would start with a call to 9m in the first instance for their advice - if they regularly squeeze out up to 1,000 hp on custom 964 engine builds then they'll know the best route to take. They helped me loads when considering switching to 3.8 cylinders. Also Autofarm I found very advice helpful. Good luck and would be interested in what is suggested in the end.

 

[daviespaj]

OK, possibly to start some conversation I will state my current thinking on my plans for my 964. It's a 180k miles tired but generally sound car. I did originally think about a backdate project, but since believe it right to keep as a warmed up 964. Paintwork is tired with some fairly minor corrosion (so far). Plan is for a glass out respray in original polar silver. Will fit air ducts in place of fogs.

I have purchased Bilstein B16 coil overs with H & R roll bars complete with some adjustable top mounts. A set of Supaflex bushes have been purchased and am considering the rose jointed spring plates (Tarret / Elephant Racing), any thoughts? Front ball joints / track rod ends will be replaced.

For the engine, I plan a rebuild and would like around 300 bhp at the end. What is the best (and most economic) route to this? Replacement airflow sensor (FVD MAF / Motec), throttle bodies, 3.8 upgrade, ECU chip and / or exhaust? Really like the twin centre outlet look (Singer / GT3 style) but I think most I have seen are hand made? Any experience would be appreciated?

I have not decided about a brake upgrade as yet? The discs are quite new, calipers need painting (was considering orange, a bit different).

Wheels, probably cup 1's, although Design 911 do a nice BBS look alike but they are 18" and I understand the necessary low profile tyres can upset the balance of the car?

Internally, I will replace the linen carpet with blue for practical reasons (seat piping and dash etc are blue). The linen seats will have to be refurbished.

Headlights are an issue, current ones are rusty (and all are like candles vs modern lights). Several companies are doing modern versions, although all are expensive. One I am considering is from the States (9Eleven www.theretrofitsource.com) $1995. Anyone found anything better value?

There will be loads more issues to resolve but these are my initial thoughts.

Peter

 

[Stephenjk]

Peter,

On the performance there are kits out there, this one sharkwerks used and had a few articles written on the car in 2017. This is the kit, it is showing out of stock so you'd need to talk to SCS if interested. i think it added 30bhp with these changes https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/product-page/porsche-911-964-management-kit

On the headlamps, I find the stock ones fine. i have got the upgraded h4 lightbulbs from Phillips and drive twisty roads in the dark no problems. My experience on 964s is there are fairly expensive to keep in good shape and so I'd get another set of original lights if need be and keep your money for other maintenance unless money no object! As an example I totalled my spend on mine that has done 113k miles and over last 3 years and 7k miles and I've spent £7k on servicing at a garage and £2.8k on parts I've bought and fitted myself (seals, speakers, few missing or corroded support pieces, engine mounts, replacement toolkit, repainting interior ......). If your car is tired the costs can quickly mount my costs dont include any bodywork nor anything on engine other than servicing.

I'd recommend colourlock in feltham for the seat repainting. They custom matched the colour to my interior as linen varies car to car and I had a steering wheel refurb kit all for under £100. i did the painting myself, took a fair amount of time as needs so many layers but very pleased with the results and still looks really good a year later. You'd need to post them some of the seat leather though (or a rear seat cushion) if you arent nearby.

Stephen

 

[mcgc0]

What do you know about your 180k mile engine already Peter? Had any previous part/full rebuilds at any time? It sounds like there is no one single magic wand of component or equipment that will deliver 300+ hp - more like many or a few coming together all adding to the total. Not sure what budget you're looking at and I guess it's starting with the least expensive components or changes that deliver (per £ spent) the best increase. Very easy to spend £10k-£20k chasing a magic number. Went through the same process early ownership. Talked to a chap who went the 3.8 barrel route who suggested it wasn't worth the £2+k getting this done. Induction and (ECU) management, with high perf injectors is probably the staple diet. Stephen has pointed out one possible route to start with. Then there's PIE and a few others out there. Love BBS LM wheels too but my heart is set on Group 4's - £££

With Stephen re the lights. Once I threw away the standard lamps and switched to top of the range (lumens etc) Philips H4's it made a big difference. Failing that a friend went the (not so legal) option with rally 130/90w lamps. Damn they were bright! Full beam not so attractive to oncoming vehicles..

 

[mcgc0]

What do you know about your 180k mile engine already Peter? Had any previous part/full rebuilds at any time? It sounds like there is no one single magic wand of component or equipment that will deliver 300+ hp - more like many or a few coming together all adding to the total. Not sure what budget you're looking at and I guess it's starting with the least expensive components or changes that deliver (per £ spent) the best increase. Very easy to spend £10k-£20k chasing a magic number. Went through the same process early ownership. Talked to a chap who went the 3.8 barrel route who suggested it wasn't worth the £2+k getting this done. Induction and (ECU) management, with high perf injectors is probably the staple diet. Stephen has pointed out one possible route to start with. Then there's PIE and a few others out there. Love BBS LM wheels too but my heart is set on Group 4's - £££

With Stephen re the lights. Once I threw away the standard lamps and switched to top of the range (lumens etc) Philips H4's it made a big difference. Failing that a friend went the (not so legal) option with rally 130/90w lamps. Damn they were bright! Full beam not so attractive to oncoming vehicles..

 

[daviespaj]

Hi All, and thanks for the input so far.

I will try an cover the points in one go. The engine did have a top end rebuild a few years ago according to the file? Still leaked oil like a grounded tanker though! I will probably end up replacing barrels and pistons given the mileage (while you are in there and all that). As you suggest the premium for 3.8 may not be worth it? I had budgeted around £10k for the full engine rebuild with a hope of seeing around 300 bhp? Talked with Ninemeister as I am North Staffordshire based.

Thanks for reminding me about SCS delta ECU upgrade, I had forgotten about them after reading something about their product only being suitable for the C2 and not the C4 variant, possibly this was incorrect- need to check?

My whole budget is around £25k which leaves me £15k for the body etc. On the headlights, I may look at upgrades to the standard lights, although I need new reflectors at least as mine are very rusty.

My drivers seat needs some leather work around the bolster (usual place) Recommendations for Midlands upholsterers welcomed. Door cards still look a bit 'yellow' after much scrubbing. Nobody seems to do replacement door cards in any other colour than black?

Thanks

Peter

 

[ras62]

Peter, given your location and the advise you need I would suggest a call to John at Unit Eleven in Warrington 01925 85200. His advise has been invaluable over the years with my car from engine rebuild and all the other things you list. He will advise on what if anything is needed urgently while suggesting options and timescales. His cost savings compared to most places these days is also very significant!

For info 300 bhp is obtainable without much effort or cost especially on a fresh engine. As always its a case of assessing what is serviceable and what is not during strip down. Enjoy the journey

 

[daviespaj]

Thanks for the info on Unit Eleven, I will give them a call to discuss options / budget? I have never spoke with them, always worth trying someone new? I still have to talk with MLR (local to me) as they are run by the co-founder of Ninemeister Marc Clowes.

 

[Stephenjk]

"Door cards still look a bit 'yellow' after much scrubbing"

Mine were yellow too and I just repainted them with the colourlock leather paint. It took a lot of layers but looks great now. You can also use colourlock on the plastic handles so can do whole card.

 

[daviespaj]

Hi Stephen, thank for the tip, parts of the door cards and especially the handles look like they have been on 20 a day for life! I will look up the leather paint and give it a go.

Peter

 

[andrew911]

Hi Mark

I saw you article in the PP this month, congrats on the role and really appreciate your efforts, I thought I need to get on the forum! , but I have always found it a bit barren - I think the biggest issue are things like the rennsport forum lots of historic tech advice over there, and FB, I am a member of multiple fb groups

Fb is a bit more accessible I guess on the mobile, maybe a 964 PCGB FB Group would go a long way, with validated membership?

events would be good when circumstances permit, and sharing our practical experiences if only for encouragement of working on our cars

this is only my 5th post on this forum since 2015, and considering I have even raced in the sprint championship, am currently competing in the sim championship, it might be time to think about other channels beyond a forum - I guess a lot of comms from PCGB is on email and the London region is quite active on FB - on the sim side we use discord - and that expands into real life racing, as well out and about - all Porsche related. I am certainly going to make more effort to contribute on the forum, especially as the work on the 964 starts over the winter and hopefully I can play back my experiences and answers to no doubt numerous questions to help others

thanks

 

[MarkGolf]

Thanks for all of the contributions guys.

I'm not on FB but if there is demand, can certainly start a group on there, no way to validate membership other than asking for numbers and checking them upon request. I'm assuming FB allows for locked down groups where access has to be granted? I got off of it a few years ago.

Discord could be a shout, I wonder how many will engage using that. I use it for finance chat.

Andrew it would be good to know more about the sim championship, I have seen a few races on youtube.

For me, it's about getting everyone talking, Rennlist is huge, a lot of UK people on there, no way going to get near those numbers but just somewhere to talk, share, stream etc. There's a great network amoungst us, someone will know the answer to a question you might have or have a part that you may be looking for, it is just a case of joining the dots somewhere central. I know forums are a bit old school now, perhaps FB is the way to go?

All points helpful and taken on board, I can't organise any meet ups at the moment, they will be 964 targeted as that's the role I'm in but if others want to pop along, no harm. I am in talks with someone who organises a general meet and tagging on to that is no problem, so when things allow, we should have a good one there.

I'm going to be doing a fair few bits to my 964 now I'm at a good base with it, so I plan to go into some detail on parts I get, DIY guides and reviews, keeps me busy and will hopefully help members out, as pointed out, a fair few don't like getting their hands dirty. I'd like to inspire some confidence there for people to get their hands dirty and see what they're missing out on and what can be achieved, not to mention saving some money and getting big satisfaction.

Cheers!

 

[daviespaj]

Hi All

Just contemplating wheel sizes, 17 or 18 inch. The two options I like are 17 inch Cup 1 or 18 inch BBS style. I have heard some people say that the 18 inch wheels loose some of the better handling characteristics of the 17 inch as the tyres are lower profile and the car becomes twitchy on our 'smooth' UK roads? Any thoughts / experience?

Thanks

Peter

 

[Hacki]

Best experience here with 17 inch. For use on UK roads, especially B roads, that´s the way to go. Front tyres not wider than 205, the wider front tyres make it somewhat twitchy. A full wheel alignment is very useful and highly recommended, as the 964 is very sensitive in that respect. Not every garage offering that service is capable of doing it, though.

So, my choice: 205 front, 255 rear, 17 inch and a proper(!) suspension set up. Best tyres for me (road use) Michelin Pilot Sport.

Hope that helps,

Hacki

 

[mcgc0]

A full wheel alignment is very useful and highly recommended, as the 964 is very sensitive in that respect. Not every garage offering that service is capable of doing it, though.

So, my choice: 205 front, 255 rear, 17 inch and a proper(!) suspension set up. Best tyres for me (road use) Michelin Pilot Sport.

This is where the usual recommendation arrives of set up master Chris Franklin at Centre Gravity. Worth every penny in set-up, advice and hands-on learning.

 

[daviespaj]

Thanks for the input. It confirmed my thoughts that the 17 inch would be best. Michelin is a given (worked for them for 21 years a while ago). Following a full suspension rebuild a visit to Centre Gravity was on my list.

Thanks Peter

 

[air-cooled-fan]

I'll strongly endorse the 17" wheel choice, Pilot Sports and Centre Gravity who did a great job to set up what was a very wayward car when I bought it. My Targa is still on standard dampers , but running 20mm lower than standard on Gembella springs. It's used principally for touring, 291 hp Redtek engine and is fully restored.

I think it's been clear for quite a while that the 964 register has not been particularly active in the past... personally I'd welcome more involvement, in particular some basic maintenance sessions e.g. brake pads, oil changes, sensible upgrades (headlights!) etc. I'd welcome some meets too based around some social time and driving for a few hours. Hopefully that will be possible in 2021 once we get on top of this horrible virus.