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stephenowen
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stephenowen PCGB Member
2020/01/11 09:02:23 (permalink)

Why are track days so expensive?

I was considering a few track days near my location this year until I calculated the cost involved. I was considering a day Anglesey and Oulton Park this year, but £1k ish for two days thrashing your own car around a circuit seems expensive to me. Usually after 20 laps I am exhausted , but it's good challenging fun! I have participated before through another Porsche owners club at a fraction of the cost, so why is it so expensive through PGB? It's making my trip to the Lemans classic this year look like a complete and utter bargain! I maybe missing something , what's your experiences like, are they worth the expense? 

Best regards,
Stephen Owen
Guards Red 1981 924 LUX
Colbolt Blue 2007 997.1 C2 Cabriolet

32 Replies Related Threads

    Geoff997
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 09:13:43 (permalink)
    PCGB days are limited numbers so more opportunity but cost per car goes up accordingly. If you only want to do 20 to 30 laps might be worth considering the 1/2 day option. 

    Geoff
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    stephenowen
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 09:40:31 (permalink)
    Thanks for the reply. That's what I was thinking but there is only one evening session at Brands what I can see. Brands is  a good three hours drive from me. I do like the evening and half day option though, it's just unfortunate that nothings happening near my location this year. If Oulton Park had something arranged I would be there. The three sisters is right on my door step and it's not a bad track, not expensive but quite tight and it only has a small straight.

    Best regards,
    Stephen Owen
    Guards Red 1981 924 LUX
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    vitesse
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 09:51:37 (permalink)
    For the lucky people with bottomless pockets ,they are an absolute bargain as they they can rocket their Turbo's & GT3's around at low risk given the absence of track cowboys.With Oulton Park hire at say £15K/day (marshalls etc) spread over 50/60 participants,it's easy too see where the cost comes from.
    In my experience many such participants don't even stay the whole day which is why I sometimes chose to do a half day in the afternoon when very often ,you end up with the track all to a few cars.However ,half days don't seem to be offered these days certainly not at the bargain price of £125/145 that they used to be when one could get almost as many laps in in relative calm if one stayed out longer,as a full day ,given that the morning sessions never seemed to start until there was only an hour to lunch.
    Given the general direction the club is travelling of ever onward & upward as a lifestyle provider,there seems no pressure to provide track days at sensible cost ,particularly for the lower performance cars,although they are quite capable of providing an exciting trackday for their owners when driven near,at or even over their sensible limits.
    I have used other trackday providers on occasions & they are not all as bad as some advocates of PCGB day suggest.
     
    Maybe there is room for an odd "budget " trackday for the lesser cars in the  PCGB calendar!
     
     
    post edited by vitesse - 2020/01/11 09:52:51

    1986 924S Stone Grey.
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    stephenowen
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 10:14:17 (permalink)
    I totally agree with your comments and I would not expect anything less from a fellow owner of a 924.We all seem to be sensible and practical people. The club should accommodate all of it's members and not a select few. It's a club, not a business and without membership it has nothing , that's something the leadership team should not forget in my opinion. 

    Best regards,
    Stephen Owen
    Guards Red 1981 924 LUX
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    stephenowen
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 10:26:44 (permalink)
    Last year I had my 924 on a track day that was organised by another Porsche club I am a member of. We only started at 11ish, but it was priced per session. The cost was around £20 per session and I was out on the track for 30 mins per session. There were 10 cars on the track if that and I had an instructor thrown in for an additional cost. Absolutely a  bargain and I didn't feel obliged to get my money's worth like paying the large fee. Additional track time was also available if you required another buzz around the track. Totally awesome and enjoyable day.

    Best regards,
    Stephen Owen
    Guards Red 1981 924 LUX
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    carnaby35
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 10:29:25 (permalink)
    Exactly what I think!!
    But it's not just trackdays is it?!!! Everything in this country seems to be ridiculously expensive. Every time I buy anything I am shocked at the cost.
    The general public however just seem to be prepared to pay through the nose for everything.
    I personally try to weigh up the value of a product and if it's overpriced then walk away if possible. 
    If more people did this then companies would not be able to charge exorbitant prices.
    A recent example- just had some paintwork done on the Lotus, first class job for £800. Wanted PPF to protect the front end so got two quotes @ £1500!! For the front of a small car.
    I challenged the cost saying at most two days labour say at £300 a day which is a very generous wage IMO
    That means the piece of film is £900 which doesn't seem to ring true to me!!!
    However, if a car is worth say £100k plus then £5k  say for PPF is small in comparison so people are paying through the nose to supposedly protect their 'investment'. 
     
    So- as long as trackdays are well attended they will be expensive!!!
    Refuse to go at those prices and I think that prices may reduce!!
     
    I now brace myself ready for the deluge of people who don't agree!!😂😂

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    carnaby35
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 10:32:57 (permalink)
    PS My comments are not directed at prices charged by the club as I assume that the track owners are responsible for the high cost of track hire.

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    vitesse
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 10:45:59 (permalink)
    Stephen,-I am only a PCGB member so no access to other clubs' trackdays that are convenient-perhaps we should try & organise to do a similar trackday with other interested owners of PCGB.
    I did join Donington Supporters club & attended their trackday which was in a November a few years ago-also run on a session basis-but the track was full of harassing Clio Sports & et alia,including those chain driven ,motorcycle engined hornets & whilst great fun ,was not as good as I would have liked.More waiting for the next session than driving plus they had motorcycle classes etc.
     

    1986 924S Stone Grey.
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    Lancerlot
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 10:48:10 (permalink)
    stephenowen
    It's a club, not a business and without membership it has nothing, that's something the leadership team should not forget in my opinion. 



    Maybe the Board should bear this mind when they start to talk about increasing the membership fees, notwithstanding there are substantial 6 figure sums accumulating in various bank accounts.
     
    Several years ago, when GaryW was 997 RS, he organised an excellent weekend event comprising a meet up on Friday evening, a tour of classic Welsh roads on Saturday plus a splendid evening meal, followed by a track day at Llandow circuit on Sunday. It was greatly enjoyed by everyone who participated and for not a lot of money - although I can't remember the exact details.
     
    Unfortunately he was later sanctioned by the Club for organising an event contrary to Club policy (most of us at the time thought it was more to do with undercutting the Club's official trackdays - which were much more expensive!)
    Regards,
     
    Clive 

    The older I get - the faster I was!
    Past - 924T, '911 SC, 911 C, 911 C2, 964, 996, 996TT, 997TT, 997GT2, 430 Scuderia, 997TT, 997TTS, 991.2TTS. Current -Macan S.
    Motorhead
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 10:59:07 (permalink)
    Just to mention that Region 4 (Linconshire & Humberside) run an annual track day at Blyton Park in May. It's run under the Club rules and is significantly cheaper than the other Club track days ... from recollection, about £120 per day with instruction included, so it's a comparative bargain. Naturally there are a lot of R4 members attending, but as a non-R4 Club member I've always felt very welcome. Definitely worth a punt, and although it's not listed currently in the track day schedule, keep an eye out for it on the forum pages.
     
    One other point to make about the Club track days is that they're exclusively for Club usage, so you're not having to fend-off the local yobbos in their ancient battle-scarred Corsas, etc. Having said that, I have on rare occasions encountered some "ungentlemanly" conduct at Club events, so clearly some members don't take on board what's been said at the pre-event briefing.
     
    Jeff
    post edited by Motorhead - 2020/01/11 11:02:01

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    ralphmusic
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 10:59:46 (permalink)
    I haven't been on a Club day for maybe three years and now use a range of other ATDO members.
     
    Goodwood increased their circuit hire prices by about 33% about four years ago and Goldtrack and Lotus on Track now only run to the cheaper 98db noise limit v 105db (fewer cars) days that the Club runs. Silverstone has been steadily increasing prices and Goldtrack increased track and garage prices, offset they said by more track time by reduced participant numbers. 
     
    The Club's August 3 Silverstone GP circuit price at £430 is lower than Goldtrack (£579) and Silverstone's own August track day (£479) - garages extra. The Club's Donnington day will be expensive as it is a noisy day, most days there are to a lower noise limit.
     
    Lotus on Track run a huge number of days and their prices are generally lower than other ADTO members. Their days are tightly and well run with friendly participants who on the whole are more experienced, faster, and courteous than you get on most track days.
     
    I don't think that the Club's prices are anyway out of line with the market. Yes they cost more than Javelin or similar but probably run with fewer cars per day and "the benefit" of the other drivers being Club members. 
     
    As stated earlier in this thread, circuit hire costs are increasing. I remember an Aston Martin group on PH organised a private day at Snetterton in 2016. The circuit with ambulance, marshalls, insurance etc cost £16k for the day. If you want to be one of one hundred, it can be inexpensive.
     
    As to organising a day, Blyton Park days started as a Regional initiative.
     
    Overall I think that the Club's days are better suited to occasional track day drivers than most others BUT are still value and enjoyable for the more experienced.
     

    Modified Reg - Asst RS
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    stephenowen
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 13:32:08 (permalink)
    Thanks for all the interest. Firstly I would be open to arranging anything track based for PCGB members, if they will sanction it! I am positive I could arrange a great day that returned fun and value for the members. I do agree that everything is expensive these days. I am quite fortunate that I have the funds to pay for these events, but I truly believe these days aren't value for money. I do accept that the days arranged by PCGB are reduced in cost, but compared to what, what's the benchmark?The track owners need to manage their costs to deliver value to their customers in my opinion. If business are managed correctly then costs can be controlled and the benefits split between stakeholders and customer. Unfortunately it seems to be the British way to accept and not challenge. 
    post edited by stephenowen - 2020/01/11 13:33:18

    Best regards,
    Stephen Owen
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    vitesse
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 14:00:34 (permalink)
    Personally,I can't see why costs have gone up so much during the recent economic climate-I think it just opportunistic pricing.
     
    I have looked at Blyton because it is good value & gets good reports but it's way over on the opposite side of the country , would take over 7 hrs ,there & back meaning a very early start ,I don't wish to incur the added costs of an overnight stay & I would already be tired before the sessions.
     
    One of the negative benefits of getting older😡
     
    However another good regional event has always been R13's Curborough Sprint day -circa £35 inc breakfast & lunch plus possibly 8-10 sprints ,most on the full circuit.

    1986 924S Stone Grey.
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    Briggy
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 14:32:23 (permalink)
    I thought it was just me! I realise that the club have to cover their costs, but by the time I've added in overnight accommodation (getting up early and spending 3 hours driving to a track isn't good prep for track driving) to the track fee, it's hard to justify the costs. I've done track days with TIPEC and also with Slip & Grip for considerably less money. The first one I did with TIPEC was dedicated to club members and had all the benefits that brings. With the wider membership that PCGB has, I don't think that adding more places and thereby lowering the cost per car would be detrimental.
     
    Cheers,
    Bryan
     

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    stephenowen
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 15:46:39 (permalink)
    I didn't want to say this, but there seems to be a whiff of the ubiquitous golf club when its coming to pricing. I have played golf in the past and if you want to play on the big courses it's extremely expensive and totally unjustifiable. You are paying for the "experience" of playing on a course where the greats have played. You only need to look at Silverstone and Goodwood prices to make a tenuous link. 

    Best regards,
    Stephen Owen
    Guards Red 1981 924 LUX
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    ralphmusic
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 16:35:21 (permalink)
    A good part of price differentials is down to noise levels and number of cars at each event. Take Slip & Slide August Castle Combe at £165 with 12 cars on track v the Club’s £250 with 8 on track. I am guessing cars on track roughly equates to total entrants so with the Club you are paying for less traffic and for others to run noisier cars.

    Modified Reg - Asst RS
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    stephenowen
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 17:02:08 (permalink)
    What happened when Donington used to hold the Monsters of Rock concert back in the 90s , it could be heard in four counties, how times have changed. Just sounds like another "increase the costs" scam in my opinion. It will be something else when we all go EV, "  battery high voltage  tax"! 
    post edited by stephenowen - 2020/01/11 17:06:49

    Best regards,
    Stephen Owen
    Guards Red 1981 924 LUX
    Colbolt Blue 2007 997.1 C2 Cabriolet
    stephenowen
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 17:05:28 (permalink)
    So there is scope to reduce costs by classing vehicles by the way of noise level? 

    Best regards,
    Stephen Owen
    Guards Red 1981 924 LUX
    Colbolt Blue 2007 997.1 C2 Cabriolet
    ralphmusic
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    Re: Why are track days so expensive? 2020/01/11 17:16:06 (permalink)
    stephenowen
    What happened when Donington used to hold the Monsters of Rock concert back in the 90s , it could be heard in four counties, how times have changed. Just sounds like another "increase the costs" scam in my opinion. It will be something else when we all go EV, "  battery high voltage  tax"! 


    Donington noise restrictions are weird given it is next to East Midlands Airport, but like all other circuits noise limits are imposed and monitored by local authorities. Whether that is a scam or not I leave to others to judge. 
     

    Modified Reg - Asst RS
    R15 Devon
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