Death of the Manual Handbrake

[ralphmusic]

I am currently driving a rental manual car with an electronic hand brake in really hilly country. I realised it was easier to put the brake on whenever stopped or parked and just drive off as it will auto release.

Not a fan but there is a “work around”

 

[wysri9]

I see that new research has revealed that the manual handbrake is becoming an endangered species on the new-car market, with 70 per cent of current models coming only with an electric/electronic handbrake with no manual option - and the trend for replacing manual handbrakes with electronic ones is increasing, too. I would guess that this has been accompanied by a similar increase in the number of new vehicles having automatic gearboxes as well.

I'm rather old school and - like a manual gearbox - I like the feel and convenience of a manual handbrake. I also still subscribe to the 'handbrake on - out of gear' philosophy when stationary (and not just when parking) I was taught when learning to drive many decades ago, so I still use the handbrake a lot when driving. I understand fully the philosophy of the electric handbrake and have no fundamental objection to it, but I have to say that its implementation in the 981 (as well as the 718 and other Porsche vehicles?) is truly abominable. Whoever decided to site it inconveniently at right knee level and then compound the error by making it a 'push on - pull off' operation? - pathetic.!

Drivers don't now use their handbrake in traffic (automatics again?), preferring to sit with their foot on the brake with the rear brake lights blinding the following driver. With all the fancy on-board electronics on modern vehicles, why can't the braking system be made to turn off the brake lights when the vehicle has been stationary for say 5 seconds?

Rant over.!

Jeff

Could not agree more! Further compounded by the haphazard nature of the hold function (dependant on the slope) and further compounded in my case by my wife's pull on/push off handbrake on her Macan.....Now I get in a car and have no idea whether to push or pull to activate the handbrake.....!

First world problem though.......

SR

 

[neilm]

Drivers don't now use their handbrake in traffic (automatics again?), preferring to sit with their foot on the brake with the rear brake lights blinding the following driver. With all the fancy on-board electronics on modern vehicles, why can't the braking system be made to turn off the brake lights when the vehicle has been stationary for say 5 seconds?

Rant over.!

Jeff

I entirely agree with the above. I've no major gripe with the concept of an electronic parking brake, but the way drivers are using (abusing?) it goes against how we were taught to be mindful of inconveniencing other drivers. To sit with your foot on the brake, dazzling other road users, especially in wet conditions is poor driving- we see it at traffic lights and at longer stops such as level crossings.

Porsche's implementation of its 'Stop Start' system compounds this with its illogical operation- avoiding sitting with your foot on the brake dazzling other users, by setting the parking brake results in the engine restarting as it's linked to the brake pedal. My Mercedes before this linked the stop/start with the accelerator, so releasing the footbrake and setting the parking brake meant the engine stayed off.

Porsche would probably say this is to ensure a quicker restart, as the engine will be starting slightly before you apply throttle, but it is a specious argument. You can of course turn off the stop start, but this also defeats the coast facility so you have to have both or neither!

 

[neilm]

Could not agree more! Further compounded by the haphazard nature of the hold function (dependant on the slope) and further compounded in my case by my wife's pull on/push off handbrake on her Macan.....Now I get in a car and have no idea whether to push or pull to activate the handbrake.....!

First world problem though.......

SR

This is quite annoying, and could lead to some expensive gearbox issues unless you are careful parking on slopes!

My drive is quite steep and the 'Hold' function operates as soon as I stop. I'd normally set the parking brake then put the car in 'Park' , but if the hold function is still in operation, this leads to the car rolling back slightly when the hold releases. The downside of this is that the car transmission rolls back onto the 'Park' pawl which locks the transmission, and in some cases can be damaged by such settling of the transmission. So my routine is now to stop the car, set the parking brake, then put it in neutral until the brake hold disengages and the car settles, then to put it into park.

 

[Motorhead]

Ralph - Auto-release can be a useful feature provided it works properly, but on my 987CS it's operation is slope-angle dependent which means operation can be a bit hit-and-miss, so I prefer using the manual handbrake.

Simon - as per above re the hold function, and it seems odd that there's operational inconsistency in operation across the Porsche range, although I suspect that it's VAG parts bin related. My take on it is that an electronic handbrake is best positioned within easy reach of your left hand and with a pull on/push off operation.

Anyway, what about handbrake turns and fly-off handbrakes.? Confined to history.!

Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

I see that new research has revealed that the manual handbrake is becoming an endangered species on the new-car market, with 70 per cent of current models coming only with an electric/electronic handbrake with no manual option - and the trend for replacing manual handbrakes with electronic ones is increasing, too. I would guess that this has been accompanied by a similar increase in the number of new vehicles having automatic gearboxes as well.

I'm rather old school and - like a manual gearbox - I like the feel and convenience of a manual handbrake. I also still subscribe to the 'handbrake on - out of gear' philosophy when stationary (and not just when parking) I was taught when learning to drive many decades ago, so I still use the handbrake a lot when driving. I understand fully the philosophy of the electric handbrake and have no fundamental objection to it, but I have to say that its implementation in the 981 (as well as the 718 and other Porsche vehicles?) is truly abominable. Whoever decided to site it inconveniently at right knee level and then compound the error by making it a 'push on - pull off' operation? - pathetic.!

Drivers don't now use their handbrake in traffic (automatics again?), preferring to sit with their foot on the brake with the rear brake lights blinding the following driver. With all the fancy on-board electronics on modern vehicles, why can't the braking system be made to turn off the brake lights when the vehicle has been stationary for say 5 seconds?

Rant over.!

Jeff

 

[Mark Elder]

Agree with the sentiment above. It is claimed that some people without much strength can't operate a manual handbrake. If that's the case, create a similar looking control stick that more easily operates an electrically powered brake, so we can keep the best of both with all the intuitive feel of a lever. The fact that different manufacturers come up with different designs for these fiddly little switches shows that there cannot be much conclusive research behind them.

My neighbour crashed into my house (no injuries to humans and her VW Golf was damaged far more than my house) as a direct result of her new car not having a proper handbrake. She just didn't feel/see that it was not on as she got out of her car.

It's another reason not to be tempted by an "upgrade".

 

[Motorhead]

Mark,

Agree with your 'fiddly little switches' comment. I reckon that it comes down to the interior designers wanting to declutter the centre console, downsizing the handbrake and gear selector sticks in the process. I'm just waiting for both devices to be deleted in favour of voice activation..!

Jeff

 

[Steve Brookes]

I'm guilty of now not using the e-brake when waiting in traffic. Mostly because it feels very un-natural to lean forward and reach under the dash to put it on! Driving/cabin ergonomics have always been one of Porsche's strengths. Putting it under the dash is a big fail!

 

[ralphmusic]

Steve,

On a track day, after a run do you just leave it in gear to avoid pads fixing themselves to rotors? How about Spa lower paddock which is “gradient rich”?

 

[Motorhead]

My point exactly Steve.

It's as though it was an afterthought and that the only location available was down by the driver's knee, compounded by its unintuitive mode of operation. The 'button' engineer should be held to account..!

I presume that this flawed philosophy has been carried-over onto the 718?

Jeff

 

[Steve Brookes]

Steve,

On a track day, after a run do you just leave it in gear to avoid pads fixing themselves to rotors? How about Spa lower paddock which is “gradient rich”?

Yes Ralph, for both my 964 and GT4 I've only ever used 'in gear' parking when at track days. With the Cayman R which had PDK I would use 'Park' and not put the manual handbrake on. And would seek out somewhere level at Spa - both upper and lower garages at Spa are level as you know.

Somewhat off topic I don't think use of the handbrake at trackdays was particularly a problem with Porsches prior to the 981/991 because it was operating shoes in the hubs, whereas the advice about not using a handbrake is geared more to keeping hot pads from damaging the discs (where the pads are also used for the handbrake on other marques and now 981/991 onwards).

 

[Motorhead]

Somewhat off topic I don't think use of the handbrake at trackdays was particularly a problem with Porsches prior to the 981/991 because it was operating shoes in the hubs, whereas the advice about not using a handbrake is geared more to keeping hot pads from damaging the discs (where the pads are also used for the handbrake on other marques and now 981/991 onwards).

Steve,

FYI I think you'll find that the 981-series cars still use the shoe-type handbrake system which is separate from the brake pads, although I guess that it's still preferable not to park-up with the handbrake on after some spirited laps as the disc bell areas will be hot.

Jeff

 

[fergusor]

The 718 has a useful 'Hold' function which means you don't have to sit with your foot on the brake (for PDK-equiped cars). Not sure if this was available on the 981 as well though.

So when the car has fully stopped, if you push your foot further on the brake pedal a little 'Hold' symbol lights up on the dashboard. This effectively means that the handbrake has been applied and you can take your foot off the brake pedal and the car won't move. If you use stop/start the engine will fire back up when you press the accelerator pedal.

I didn't know about this feature until I went on the half-day session at the Porsche Experience Centre, and now I use it all the time.

Richard.

 

[D911ARK]

I too am a manual handbrake fan, as I am in control and echoing above, was taught how to use the clutch and handbrake in tandem when on hills etc. Unfortunately, with the growing trend and rise of younger people needing everything done for them as they cant think for themselves, its not going away, nor are electrics in the car. I agree, some electrics make things safer, but I've always argued, anyone who needs parking sensors on a Nissan Micra, should have their license revoked, for example.

Back to topic, though, a couple of things of note. I had to do 'Advanced Driver Training' (although it wasn't what I called advanced, but hey) for work a few years back. I was told I had to drive as I would normally for work, it wasn't a driving test and I couldn't fail, but we needed our 'risk' assessed. I drove 'normally'. I used handbrake at lights, on hills etc. I was told, 'you are wrong'. When at lights, you are not Parked, therefore you don't use the parking brake. You put your foot on the brake and if you need to move off quickly, lets say a car is going to hit you from the rear, you can make a quicker get away. I advised I don't like blinding the guy behind. I was told to ignore the person behind, its about my safety. It makes sense at night, with no-one else around, but not in traffic. I use this technique at night, as if someone is coming too fast and doesn't know lights (or an obstruction is why I'm stopped) I hope the brighter lights are easier to see. Once I have another car 'stopped' behind me, I take my foot off of the brake. If you had the lights 'turn off after 5 seconds' you'd lose that safety element, so I can see why it isn't done. It doesn't now if you are in traffic or not, but, I take your point.

And as for the buttons themselves, I wish all manufacturers would make a standard. Some come off automatically when driving off, some don't, some are pull on pull off, some push on pull off or vice versa, and its bloody annoying!!!

Like manual gearboxes, we are going to be in the minority soon, as more and more people want easy life and things done for them. We are no longer the target market for cars as we age (IMO). My neighbor argues with me that 'why do you need a manual, you are telling me you can change gear quicker than the computer and know when to do it?' I argue back, no I don't think I'm quicker, but I'm also not driving everywhere like its a race and need to change gear that fast. If of course I was trying to set a lap record in a GT2RS, I'd happily let the car do the work for me

Long live manuals and long live the handbrake

 

[Buddy]

All very interesting views and like everyone here I dislike the change to electronic handbrakes, the positioning of the switches is also terrible as is the operation.

While Jeff is old school with his manual and many do still prefer it, I have a similar car with PDK and manual handbrake, my preference for the PDK is I think rooted in my motorbiking days as I liked the sequential nature of the gearboxes and the speed of the gearshift is to say the least impressive but when I need to stop at lights for example, I select park and if on a slope also use the handbrake.

 

[alastairp]

Interesting.

My daily is a VW Polo GTi which is only available as an auto and has a manual handbrake.

At lights, junctions etc I hate sitting with my foot on the brake. However, the vehicle creeps forward otherwise.

If I was to leave the transmission in D, I would need to haul the handbrake on with both hands to prevent the forward creep.

Therefore, I move the transmission to park, and then engage the handbrake to prevent the transmission "locking" if there is any gradient whatsoever.

My previous car (Audi A3 eTron - again only available as auto) and my wife's (manual) Golf estate both had/have an electronic handbrake switch which is very convenient to use.

Just come to a halt using the foot brake, remain in gear and flick the switch which is located where the handbrake would otherwise have been. When you want to drive off, just press the accelerator and the vehicle pulls away with the handbrake releasing automatically.

Very convenient, especially with an auto transmission. I just wish my Polo had this and cannot understand why it doesn't as it is the biggest negative aspect of the car in my opinion.

Funnily enough, the first car I had with an electronic handbrake, a 2006 VW Passat estate, was a manual and I hated the electronic handbrake. I kept stalling when trying to release the handbrake and drive away on a hill on the first day I had the car. Only when I read the book of words did I realise that you only needed to apply the handbrake and (as long as your seatbelt was on!) you only needed to engage gear and drive off to release the handbrake.

 

[Gazoak]

I too am a manual handbrake fan although in my Cayman, the centre console does look neater without. TBH, I only ever use it when parking on a hill because I was advised if you don't, it can strain the PDK box. I agree though that it's push on, pull off facility and location isn't very well thought out. Our 2018 M3 has a manual handbrake as does my 2019 UP GTI so they'll be around for a while in our household. I used to enjoy the Mercedes foot brake which I though was a great idea unless you bought a manual!

 

[AndrewT]

Brake light dazzle has been mentioned in this thread. I wonder whether the problem of brake light dazzle could be solved by some clever software: if the car is held stationary on the foot brake the brake lights are on but when the rear parking sensors sense a vehicle behind the brake lights could be switched off or dimmed - this would assume that a following vehicle has stopped within range of the sensors.

Have I missed an obvious problem? Would it be any more hazardous than holding a car on the handbrake, with no brake lights visible, when traffic is approaching from behind?

 

[Motorhead]

That would be a very good solution Andrew - and I take on board the (potential) advantages of having the brake lights on when the car is stationary.

However, I have to say that if you're unable to recognise that the car in front is stationary then you need to get your eyes tested and you're not fit to drive..! Although at long last I note that the government are contemplating making a regular eye test compulsory for older drivers, I believe that this rule should be compulsory for all drivers, regardless of age.

Many cars nowadays have the option of some sort of low speed collision avoidance system being fitted and it won't be long before that and adaptive autonomous cruise control become standard fitments, so the pesky brake light problem will become a moot point.

Jeff