First Time Buyer

[lukegueli]

Hi all,

I've been interested in the 944 since my Dad first started taking me to Porsche events and now I'm finally in the position to:
a) Afford a car
and
b) Get insured

So I wondered if I could get a bit of a discussion going on:

• Which model is the most enjoyable to drive and in terms of investment where is the market at, what is likely to appreciate most in the coming years (square dash vs oval dash), (turbos vs NAs) (S vs S2)?

Please help a young enthusiast out and any advice on things to look for would be welcomed!

 

[edh]

Luke maybe the starting point is budget? There's a wide range
Most enjoyable to drive depends on what you want - a late turbo will deliver more acceleration, a 924S will be a lighter, more involving drive on a B-road. The 2.5 8V cars aren't all that fast, but still fun.

People have been talking about 944 prices for ever... and while there has been a bit of a hike in the last 3 or 4 years I can't really see them changing much apart from the very low mileage garage queens. If you want an investment I don't think these cars are that special. I've owned 944's for fifteen years or more, and they are great cars to drive, very different to modern cars, with a mechanical feel & heavy but well matched control weights, reasonably easy to work on.

 

[Briggy]

I had a Cab, the vast majority of which came with an S2 engine. This is the most powerful of the naturally aspirated engines and also the latest (a relative term!) in terms of styling and detailing. I really like the linear pull of an NA engine, so the turbo wasn't for me.

In terms of investment - I paid £4,250 for mine and sold it for £11,250 a little over 4 years later. I spent waaaaay more than that getting things back on track, then keeping on top of them. Prices for a 996 have dropped to the point where they're not much more than a good 944. Also a Boxster can be significantly cheaper. All these factors suggest to me that you won't make any money on a 944 (unless it's a low mileage garage queen or some other collectable), but you're unlikely to suffer any depreciation, which is usually the main cost of owing any car.

Read the buyer's guides in detail and pay particular attention to the big ticket items - rust in the cills (get an endoscope type camera down the vent on the B pillar), clutch (rubber centred originals are prone to the rubber perishing - symptoms are car lurching when applying/releasing the throttle), belts and water pump, suspension (struts on the front are no longer available, so Bilstein conversion is a good replacement), rear main seal (cheap oil seal, but very labour intensive to replace), cam chain tensioner slippers (they wear out) and cam sprockets (can snap/round off). Both the slippers and sprockets require the cam cover to be removed to be inspected, which any seller is unlikely to be happy with. The slippers cost about £70 but failure is as catastrophic as the cambelt failing. The above applies to the S2, which is where my knowledge ends. May be applicable to other models too.

Happy hunting!

 

[lukegueli]

Thank you to both EDH and Briggy, those were really helpful replies.

I just had a further question: A few people I've been talking to have said that the early 944s (square dash) are good to buy due to their simplicity and lower running costs so do you think this would outweigh the lack of power?

Budget is maximum £20,000 but ideally looking around £10,000

 

[944Turbo]

I started with a 1986 2.5 oval dash, it was a lovely car but to me it felt like it needed about 100Bhp more to make it interestiing so I purchased a late turbo moving from around 160 bhp to 250Bhp. Unfortunately Porsche had improved the brakes / suspension lengthened the gearing so it still felt like it needed another 100BHp which it did get over time! Adding power to the turbos is easier, but I appreciate not everybody wants or needs that power! (especially with the way speeding in 3 figures can be dealt with these days).

If it is your first rwd car then a normally aspirated car is probably the sensible choice - but really you want to buy the best one you can find - Check carefully in the sills, when the door is open you can pop out the grill in the B pillar and get a phone/camera down into the sills. Look out for smoke from the exhaust on a cold start and also when lifting off and coasting. Check the coolant for oil and the oil for coolant. Check for a belt change in the past 4 years and a waterpump in the past 8. There are still some gems to be found https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1090308 might well go up in value if the miles don't go up too much! (PS only seen the advert no the car!)
Tony

 

[944Turbo]

First thing to do would be to buy new tyres!

 

[Chrishazle]

Your max budget will cover most 944's and quite a few 968's (which some think should be called a 944S3!). My first was a 1983 944 lux, 2.5l coupe in guards red (although the front NS wing was the traditional Guards Pink!). Nice drive, but out run by many modern hatches - and no vertical adjustment on the drivers seat so wife would not drive it. Swopped to a 2.7l 944 16v Ventiler - big mistake. OK, had vertical adjustment on the drivers seat for SWMBO, but unless you kept the engine above about 3.5k revs you might as well have been driving a Rover 1 (IMHO I hasten to add, before I get flamed by S owners!). Swopped that for a 968 tiptronic coupe, initially as our main car, then as a weekend toy, loved it so much we kept it for 12 1/2 years before having to scratch the cabriolet itch - and did that with a 968 tip cab 7 years ago which we still have!.

Big advantage of later cars (I think S2's but am not sure, certainly 968's) is galvanising, so tinworm is far less of a problem. Fixing rotted sills on an early 944 properly could easily be £1000 - 1500 per side!! It can happen on later cars - I saw a 944 cab (not turbo so must have been an S2) in Wendover a couple of years ago, and both sides were totally rotted out wheel arch to wheel arch.

Basic maintenance on these cars is relativly easy - I was able to do an oil/filter/plugs change on the 968 myself, and I'm no mechanic. However, timing/cam belt and rollers change is a requirement every 4ish years (think £400 at an indie), and many think it's worth changing the water pump on the second or third belt change.

Personal opinion - if I wanted to buy a 944 today, the only model I'd look at would be an S2, but within your budget you could also look at a 968 coupe (don't discount the tiptronic, as you can drive it as a 4 speed clutchless manual, the 968 tip box is IMHO better than the 944 auto, and the tip coupe is cheaper than the manual these days!) or possibly a 968 Sport - although that would be at the top end of your budget these days.

As an example, just listed on PH and 968uk :https://www.pistonheads.c...ort--iris-blue/9721698

 

[scam75]

Totally up to you. My first was an early lux which was ok, then after many years returned to the fold with a late model turbo that with minimal spending chucks out over 300 horses and keeps tabs with plenty modern stuff in the 60 to 100+ mph zone. I do much prefer the lines of the turbo which of course the S2 copied. All great cars with a rewarding drive imo and you always get plenty looks and nods and waves at the wheel.

Stuart

 

[edh]

Thank you to both EDH and Briggy, those were really helpful replies.

I just had a further question: A few people I've been talking to have said that the early 944s (square dash) are good to buy due to their simplicity and lower running costs so do you think this would outweigh the lack of power?

Budget is maximum £20,000 but ideally looking around £10,000

For that sort of money you should be looking at a really nice example - no rust, very tidy interior, everything working. Looks like there are loads of cars up for sale, some with rather ambitious prices...Beware "low mileage" claims though. Turbos can have higher running costs, but that's usually because they get modified.. so part upgrade, part running cost.

I don't think the early cars are that much simpler TBH. It's worth driving a few. You may not like the lower steering wheel position of the early cars.

All of the different models have their advocates. Early turbos look ace with deep dish teledials or fuchs. The square dash interior is very different to the later oval dash. I really like the wilder interior trims - pasha in early cars and the pink studio check on the Turbo S look great to me.
.

 

[blade7]

in terms of investment where is the market at, what is likely to appreciate most in the coming years (square dash vs oval dash), (turbos vs NAs) (S vs S2)?

None of them, you've missed the boat.

 

[944Turbo]

in terms of investment where is the market at, what is likely to appreciate most in the coming years (square dash vs oval dash), (turbos vs NAs) (S vs S2)?

None of them, you've missed the boat.

Maybe, but they are not making any more! Usually when stuff gets rarer it goes up in value and they still look cheap next to some ordinary stuff like rs2000 escorts

 

[PSH]

[/quote]
Maybe, but they are not making any more! Usually when stuff gets rarer it goes up in value and they still look cheap next to some ordinary stuff like rs2000 escorts

[/quote]



I wonder what will happen to the value of the old RS2000 escorts when the brand new cars become available?

 

[Ewan]

At your budget I'd be looking for a really lovely S2. Which is exactly what I did earlier in the year, eventually buying one from Steve Bull Specialist Cars (Porsche specialist in Devizes). But you could get a perfectly okay turbo (though with higher mileage) at the top of your budget. I decided I wanted as near to perfect example of a 944 I could find though, and near perfect turbos start with a 3, not a 2 (and my budget was to try and keep it below the 2 mark, hence I settled on an S2).

The other factor in my choice this time was that I didn't want (again) to get caught up in the endless world of upgrades which can (does!) happen if you buy a turbo. With an S2 you can simply buy one and retain its originality.

 

[graham.webb]

Some good advice here,,,thought I might as well pitch in!

Bought my S2 in 2006, the advice then was not to obsess about model or colour, but buy the best you can find, and condition and service history are vital. I'd say that still holds good today, and I've enjoyed the car. Look at rust (sills, lower wings, floor), walk away from cars that have no evidence of proper servicing...not worth the risk especially where belts and rollers are concerned.

However, performance is better for the S2 and Turbo...I agree with the earlier comment about the S2's power delivery, although a lot of it is about torque, a very flat curve. Floor it on a long straight road and acceleration really is shockingly linear, just keeps building speed. Turbos have at least another 10 bhp which really counts at the top end. If that's your thing then go for a Turbo. And Turbo values have rocketed whilst all the cars have only held their value well enough.

Lots of people like the earlier/square dash cars...although less powerful they are a lot lighter. Who needs electric seats, electric sunroof??

Values were flat for years but have jumped a bit recently, and IMHO it's not worth paying extra for a low mileage car. They drive a lot better after regular use and you'll lose its value as soon as you drive it. There's plenty of cars on here with mileage at 200k plus and none the worse for it!

Oh, and consider joining the Club...good value for only 60 quid.

 

[blade7]

in terms of investment where is the market at, what is likely to appreciate most in the coming years (square dash vs oval dash), (turbos vs NAs) (S vs S2)?

None of them, you've missed the boat.

Maybe, but they are not making any more! Usually when stuff gets rarer it goes up in value and they still look cheap next to some ordinary stuff like rs2000 escorts

Comparing a 944 to a RS 2000 doesn't take into account the fanatical following the Ford has. Obviously the 944 is a better built car, but in my euro millions garage There would be several RS Fords and no 944's.

 

[Dan944t]

in terms of investment where is the market at, what is likely to appreciate most in the coming years (square dash vs oval dash), (turbos vs NAs) (S vs S2)?

None of them, you've missed the boat.

Maybe, but they are not making any more! Usually when stuff gets rarer it goes up in value and they still look cheap next to some ordinary stuff like rs2000 escorts

Comparing a 944 to a RS 2000 doesn't take into account the fanatical following the Ford has. Obviously the 944 is a better built car, but in my euro millions garage There would be several RS Fords and no 944's.

No 944’s! ??????

 

[blade7]

No Porsche unless it has a GT or RS badge.

 

[PSH]

No Porsche unless it has a GT or RS badge.

No Porsche unless it has a GT or RS badge.

Does that mean you're going to put your name down for one of these brand new RS2000' MK2 Escort's about to be built?

 

[blade7]

My last RS2 was a 78 X-Pack with twin 45 DCOE Webers on a rebuilt engine, it cost me £2.5k. How much is a new one?

 

[PSH]

no idea, they've only just been announced.. IIRC not built by Ford's ....will have to be modified to meet current new car standards but the concept looks good, my son knows far more details about the new cars than I