Can I use a TOM TOM when driving in France?

[aholymanjones55]

After my recent France experience of speeding fines incurred when running-in the 718 B GTS, I thought I would post an update as I was somewhat taken aback when I discovered on researching whether sat nav are still illegal to use in France (as I thought) to find that both Tom Tom and Garmin have found a legal workaround to handle the many camera’s that are now in force.

Although I have not checked out for Garmin this, my research is on Tom Tom ( I would imagine Garmin have taken a similar approach).

In 2017, 26m speeding fines issued, generating some Euro1Bn in revenue from the 3,200 or so active camera’s. The Yellow Vest movement is thought to have started on the back on discontent form rural France on the impact of the French Government reducing speed limit on the B roads from 90 kph to 80 kph and the cost and massive volume to them of the speeding fines being imposed, that typically seem to fall to the drivers in rural France.

Given this information is so poorly disseminated makes sense to pass on what has been unearthed. I genuinely thought Sat Nav’s like Tom Tom’s were illegal to use in France post 3/1/2012…..introduced a little over seven years ago.

The official stance from Tom Tom states:

Since 3^rdJanuary 2012, it has been illegal to receive warnings about the position of fixed or mobile speed camera when you are driving in France. To be complaint with this change in French Law, speed camera location are no longer reported but instead areas of danger are indicated as danger zones or risk zones. Tom Tom Danger Zones warns you about both danger zones and risk zones in the same way.

A danger zone is a zone specified by French law. A risk zone is a temporary danger zone reported by users.

You may use a Tom Tom, set up to tell you when you are about to enter the so called Danger Zone. Dependant on the type of road you have a range of distance to travel and then you are clear.

Specific camera site locations are not available and a danger zone icon is shown as you approach the zone.

The minimum length of the zone depends on the road type and is :-

• 300m for roads in a built-up area
• 2000m (2K) for secondary roads
• 4000m (4K) for motorways

The location of one or more speed cameras, if any, can be at any point within the zone.

If two danger zones are close to each other, the warnings can be merged into a single longer zone.

Critically, in my view danger zone warnings are displayed, when no route is planned. So you actually don’t need to use Tom Tom for navigation (continue to use the PCM) using Tom Tom to flag up Danger Zones with the warning bleep and visually via the warning alert icons.

You will also receive a warning sound/bleep…..

You will see the system flags up an Alert on top left of the Tom Tom screen and Route Symbol on the road you are travelling.

So I think this cracks this issue on being on top of, and legal for driving in France, when using a Tom Tom.

In summary, get a Tom Tom with French Map/Europe loaded and make sure Danger Zone Alerts is activated in Settings, (Typically a 3 months free service is provided when you first buy) and then you will need to have subscription service to keep up -to-date and make sure Warning Sounds are On……

Tom Tom keeps the data up-to-date by way of updates, hence the need to be connected into their system by a subscription.

The fines for illegal use are Euro 1,500 and possible confiscation of the car. So important to get this right.

Cheers

 

[s999sws]

Or just use Waze, completely free and works well, as long as you have a smart phone.
Sws

 

[cobnut]

... or, of course, don't speed []

 

[hotfrog1]

We did a return trip from Saint Malo to Perpignan Last September. This was mainly on rural roads. Portable speed trap cameras manned by police were common. Speed compliance with new 80KPH limit was strong and speeders stood out like a sore thumb. I agree about Waze but for some reason it could not route plan the whole route. Anything over about 400 miles and it gave up.

France seemed to be strongly enforcing the 80KPH rural speed limit. The lesson is obvious.

 

[s999sws]

I used my PCM for the routing, and just had the phone on for Waze speed camera alerts. It worked fine.
SWS

 

[zagamuffin]

So for manned cameras what’s the fine and for unmanned can they follow up on foreign registration (when I travel in the UK the cameras are moot)

 

[chaser]

Speeding fines from France have been arriving on Brit doorsteps for some time. And now it seems so are German speeding fines, I got mine last week [8|]

 

[paulwalters]

I travel over to SW France at least 4 times per year in my Cayenne and " touch wood” have never had a speeding offence. I use the PCM only for the sat nav and have always seen the advanced warnings indicating that a speed camera is ahead. Previous to me having the Cayenne, I used a Tom Tom sat nav but deactivated the camera locations as if stopped by the police you can be fined just for having the camera locations showing on the sat nav. I have recently heard that an additional 400 speed cameras are to be installed across France, also a large number of unmarked police cars but these are mainly in northern France. You can also be picked up for speeding on the autoroutes between the tolls from camera recognition when you collect the ticket to when you exit the toll. ie average speed recorded over the distance of the toll section. As for the reduction of the 90km/hr to 80km/hr the French are now considering this to be scrapped as there are apparently more accidents with lowering the speed limit. In summarising it only makes sense to stick to the speed limits as it is now too risky to be caught speeding.

 

[Madala]

I can attest to speeding fines being sent to the UK by the German local authorities as I have received two small ones from my recent trip ....... one for 15 Euro ( 6 KPH over in a 30 zone) and one for 20 Euro (11 KPH over in a 100 zone) ...... in the end on reflection I decided to pay both as I will be over there again in September and I am well aware of German efficiency and dogmatism.

Am I correct in thinking that we have no reciprocal agreement in asking for driver and car information for those European drivers who get caught speeding in the UK? If so it's a travesty of justice.

 

[Rufus]

Anyone buying a new car after 2023 will not have to worry about speed traps as it will be impossible to break ANY limit with the speed limiters being forced on us by the EU.There will be little point in owing a high performance car as everybody will be driving at the same speed. How long will Porsche, Ferrari etc survive? I am glad that my best driving years are behind me as the future is bleak.

 

[tscaptain]

Well, I guess that it will be a long time before even 50% of the cars on the road will be speed limited, so the dystopian vision of everyone plodding along at the same speed would seem to be a very long way off yet. Mind you, the way a lot drive around these parts you would think that they all had 40mph limiters already......Anyway, just keep a pre 2023 car and I suppose there's no problem![]

 

[Rufus]

I think everyone will be forced to have a black box for insurance when this comes in which will act as a speed limiter unfortunately

 

[JohnCRS]

To the OP, the TomTom system is legal in France as they do not pinpoint the cameras, rather they warn of a danger area within which the cameras might be, usually a kilometre or more either side. In practice it appears that the TomTom gives its warning some way before the big signs that the French authorities erect warning of speed checks. I have found that the fixed sites are well signed. It is the manned checks and the bikes that are the ones to look out for. Off the motorways the limits do change fairly frequently, 90 if a contraflow is in place, 80 without a central divide, 70 at bigger junctions or hamlets, 50 between entry and exits of towns (often the town name sign signals the automatic start of the 50 without a speed sign being present) 30 at pedestrian crossings. Someone in France makes a fortune producing speed signs and it can make for very frustrating progress And the cameras are often sited within, say, a 500 metre stretch of 70, just to keep you on your toes.

They also have new cameras now which look like concrete bunkers at the side of the road, average speed cameras on motorways which can be difficult to spot. I have not actually heard of anyone being pulled at a toll booth though, so whilst they could calculate the speed between peages, I don’t think they do, yet.

Basically, spirited driving in France now costs, but fortunately only euros and not in licence losing points.

 

[Gazoak]

I don't see how letters arriving on your doorstep in the UK from France or Germany can be enforced. Will they try and extradite you? I can't see them getting the police or UK courts involved which are stretched already.

 

[farleton]

There is something called the Cross Border Enforcement Directive which allows EU countries to enforce fines for offences in their Country through the British Courts. Don't rely upon the rule calling for notification of offence being received within 14 days of the offence. That only applies to offences committed in U.K. There is no guarantee that the CBED will not continue to apply after Brexit. It is thought that many such legal arrangements will continue under exit arrangements. Even if such fines are not pursued by the foreign authorities and you chose not to pay the fine don't plan a return visit to that Country. Your number plate will be on be on record and in some EU countries you may well find your car being seized.

 

[jenniferredfearn]

I don't see how letters arriving on your doorstep in the UK from France or Germany can be enforced. Will they try and extradite you? I can't see them getting the police or UK courts involved which are stretched already.

You may wish to travel in Europe again, they will be waiting for you and it will cost you a lot more, on the spot fine etc. if caught.

 

[aholymanjones55]

Having started this post now I'm back from Le Mans a good time to provide an update.

Tom Tom worked fine. It operated precisely as expected, and in combo with PCM. We had a back-up in the other car that did the trip and confirmed Bleep via Walkie Talkie just to be doubly sure.

I did look at using the Phone app (Waze) but its not really an option for me. I don't want yet another app gobbling up both memory and battery when I only use so infrequently.

I used the 12 v supply down in the passenger footwell as the power source and had the device in the elasticated side pocket to hold it safe....out of sight.

Door2Door the trip was around 900 miles which is the typical normal number of miles we have taken over the last 20 years on this trip, when we wander off into the back country avoiding the toll roads.

Cheers