Help with suspension choices

[stephenryan]

Hi All-
I'm currently planning a suspension rebuild but perhaps slightly oddly i DONT 'get' the obsession with very low ride heights and don't want it lowered much at all.
It currently sits on standard shocks and gemballa springs and is so low that I can't even get it into my garage. The whole thing needs a rethink and I remember rather liking the feel of the standard suspension that I had on my first 1992 C2 back in the day...
What are your experiences on the optimal height and set up for an early C2 1990 - I don't want coil overs and RS setups as the car will be used mostly for touring. Ive been thinking about KW v1 on a high setting but does anyone have a usable standard spring and shock set up that they have removed and no longer need?
Stephen

 

[mcgc0]

An obsessive topic for many! As always all down to personal preferences and 'how' you want to enjoy driving your 964. Probably the best and first stop professional (and impartial) advice would be a quick consultation with Chris at Centre Gravity. Explaining what you want from your driving and as much what you con't want driving Chris can lay out some options and recommendations. Personally I don't go anywhere else for any of my cars suspension decisions and set ups. Good luck.

 

[Dekker]

Hi All-
I'm currently planning a suspension rebuild but perhaps slightly oddly i DONT 'get' the obsession with very low ride heights and don't want it lowered much at all.
It currently sits on standard shocks and gemballa springs and is so low that I can't even get it into my garage. The whole thing needs a rethink and I remember rather liking the feel of the standard suspension that I had on my first 1992 C2 back in the day...
What are your experiences on the optimal height and set up for an early C2 1990 - I don't want coil overs and RS setups as the car will be used mostly for touring. Ive been thinking about KW v1 on a high setting but does anyone have a usable standard spring and shock set up that they have removed and no longer need?
Stephen

There's a chap selling Bilstein PSS10 at a discount of £500, band new, bought in error. Look in the For Sale section of forum.
A comfortable ride with Bilstein HD and Eibach springs according to folks on Rennlist.
Below is a spreadsheet I put together when researching what I wanted when doing my '89 C2

 

[stephenryan]

Update - I eventually had Peter Tognola fit Bilstein B6's and Eibach springs to great effect. Much more stable, slightly higher than it was so I get over speed humps but still 1 finger between top of the tyre and the arch front and back. The springs are set to the highest setting for now but I may lower it down as I get used to it.
It's oddly softer AND corners better - partly due to almost all the front suspension being rebuilt at the same time. Almost all of the bolts were seized and the amount of hours went up considerably as a result but it now handles better than new ( I remember my old 1992 C2 964 back in the 90's)
List of parts:
Hartech referbished wishbones
OE Top mounts front and rear
OE Drop links
OE ball joints
OE track rods.
Bilstein B6's all round
Eibach springs.
Very happy in the end...

 

[Dekker]

Great, I'm glad you're happy.
After the suspension has settled, get it set up correctly. I had mine dropped 40mm so I used the 964RS settings and have never looked back, sticks like glue but it is firm.
I had mine setup by Simon in Stourbridge (Chemix Autocentre) for £85 and he spent 2 hrs getting it right after I rebuilt my suspension. He was recommended by Supercars of Worcester and I took it to a trackday in Anglesey the next day and it was transformed handling wise.

 

[colin129]

Update - I eventually had Peter Tognola fit Bilstein B6's and Eibach springs to great effect. Much more stable, slightly higher than it was so I get over speed humps but still 1 finger between top of the tyre and the arch front and back. The springs are set to the highest setting for now but I may lower it down as I get used to it.
It's oddly softer AND corners better - partly due to almost all the front suspension being rebuilt at the same time. Almost all of the bolts were seized and the amount of hours went up considerably as a result but it now handles better than new ( I remember my old 1992 C2 964 back in the 90's)
List of parts:
Hartech referbished wishbones
OE Top mounts front and rear
OE Drop links
OE ball joints
OE track rods.
Bilstein B6's all round
Eibach springs.
Very happy in the end...

Are you happy to provide an idea of how much that little lot set you back?

My car is in for it's annual service and we had a discussion about replacing the springs & shocks at the back and the wishbone bushes at the front. They are happy for me to go another year (I have a fairly scary bill coming my way this year anyway, which includes an exchange starter motor and rear drop link bushes), but I need to replace the front wishbone bushes sooner rather than later and they suggested using Elephant Racing bushes, at £225 + VAT per side, from the US.

The OE replacement of rear shocks, springs and top mounts comes in at £1,750, would your choice of Bilsten B6 & Eibach springs be a better (and cheaper?) option, obviously I will need to go all around with them, not just at the back.

Again, like you, I am more touring orientated.

Edit: I'm not that fussed about lowering the car, unless someone can sell me the benefits.

 

[colin129]

Anyone?

 

[Mark Elder]

Can't comment on you specific questions, but the comment above about Chris Franklin at Centre Gravity I would definitely echo - if you are based anywhere near (they are in Tamworth)* it is definitely worth going and having a chat. He's really open and helpful and will explain different ways and costs of doing things.

* That said, I'm in Scotland and it was still well worth the drive!

 

[Dekker]

My car is in for it's annual service and we had a discussion about replacing the springs & shocks at the back and the wishbone bushes at the front. They are happy for me to go another year (I have a fairly scary bill coming my way this year anyway, which includes an exchange starter motor and rear drop link bushes), but I need to replace the front wishbone bushes sooner rather than later and they suggested using Elephant Racing bushes, at £225 + VAT per side, from the US.

Edit: I'm not that fussed about lowering the car, unless someone can sell me the benefits.

I fitted Powerflex polyurethane bushes in my wishbones. Drill the rubber between the inner and outer parts of the bush until you can remove the inner part. Then use a hack saw to carefully cut through the outer metal sleeve, then use a hammer and chisel to remove it as the saw cut will allow the sleeve to shrink clear of the wishbone. Clean up with wire brush and insert the powerflex bushes, about £35 each from memory. Had them on for more than 4 years and they work really well and have a lifetime warranty.

I lowered mine for the looks and lower centre of gravity, it truly transformed the handling.

 

[stephenryan]

but I need to replace the front wishbone bushes sooner rather than later and they suggested using Elephant Racing bushes, at £225 + VAT per side, from the US.

The OE replacement of rear shocks, springs and top mounts comes in at £1,750, would your choice of Bilsten B6 & Eibach springs be a better (and cheaper?) option, obviously I will need to go all around with them, not just at the back.

Again, like you, I am more touring orientated.

Edit: I'm not that fussed about lowering the car, unless someone can sell me the benefits.

[/quote]
so, I really like the refurbished Hartech wishbones that I sourced. The whole wishbone comes freshly painted with new bushes already fitted so they are an easy swap. Apparently, the bushes can be a pain to change. They are on an exchange basis and work out at £135+vat each side and really clean up the appearance as well as working well.. The MoT guy got a real shock this year when checking the suspension, a constant stream of "wow"s... The RS /elephant bushes will probably sharpen the front end slightly over the Hartech ones but will you really notice given the extra cost of purchase and fitting?

I don't see the point of lowering too much if you're using the car on poor British roads. Yes it looks great but you'll bottom out over pot holes and scrape the bodywork on curbs. My 964 is at the highest setting on the B6's and there's about 1-2 fingers of air between tyre and arch. No fouling, no bottoming out and still a lovely sharp but subtle ride. RS set ups will kill your back (read the journal tests from the period) and the standard 964 non-RS handled beautifully and the B6's improve this in my opinion.
Let us know what you do in the end!

 

[stephenryan]

Re your question on suspension costs.
Using mostly Porsche parts puts the cost up considerably so I used a combination of original and good branded. The standard thoughts would be 3-4 hours per corner in labour but if its all seized up them you can double that. 20-30 hours costs whatever it costs where you are but the parts will be around £3.5-5k so realistically, a complete suspension rebuild ranges from at least £5k to up to £8 depending on spec and condition.
Ouch...
If you're buying a car, always try to buy one that has the work already done!

 

[Dekker]

I think your labour costs are too high. The fronts were changed on mine 3 hrs while I worked on changing the rears. All done in 4hrs then a quick setup and off to the track the day after.
You'd need extra for the wishbones.

 

[Ruskiedog1]

mine were changed last year before I bought the car, B6 and Eibach and I have two fingers on front and rear so I don’t think they’ve been set to lowest.
ride is nice and considering the small lanes I live around work well
id like to drop it to 1finger and see, I can see thread on the shock to do it and compress the springs a little more. Tool on route.
‘Going to update the drop links and roll bars next year.
i have just added Bergvill fx LED Light kit, awesome!

I’m getting delivered FVD 100 cell cat and cat pipe and will be fitting that this week, exciting! Will sound like a beast but without the drone as I’m keeping the secondary muffler until that blows out.