Hot!400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo?

Page: 123 > Showing page 1 of 3
Author
blade7
Guest of the Club
  • Total Posts : 1450
  • Joined: 2008/06/06 12:28:26
  • Status: offline
blade7 Guest of the Club
2018/12/06 16:40:11 (permalink)

400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo?

Just for fun, how would they compare? In the dry I reckon the 944 would match the 911 up to around 175 mph. Then gearing and aero would let the beetle edge ahead to 190mph. 

51 Replies Related Threads

    John Sims
    PCGB Member
    • Total Posts : 7403
    • Joined: 2003/01/31 20:58:57
    • Status: offline
    John Sims PCGB Member
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/06 17:03:39 (permalink)
    Having driven a 997 Turbo, in almost anyone's hands it would poo over a 400 bhp 944. And that is the rub, it will do it in anyone's hands, no matter how much of a Wheelsmith they are or aren't.
     
    Almost everything about it flatters the average driver. It has 4WD traction and the cleverest traction and dynamic controls you could imagine. Aside throwing it into a corner at a speed with which all the tyres just have to give up, it will go around that corner and accelerate out as if being chased by the Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
     
    I actually found the whole experience a little depressing. I recon I can hustle a car along a bit on a track but couldn't see me keeping up in a 944 (no matter how much power) as the 997 was so good.
     
    If you are just talking American style racing, where you ignore corners, then the launch control and 4WD traction will most likely monster you off the line. You might reduce the gap a bit to 100 but after that it would be game over for the 944.  And just to add insult to injury, the Panzamera Turbo would probably do the same thing and the Panzamera Turbo S even more so.     
    post edited by John Sims - 2018/12/06 17:07:53

    John Sims


    tscaptain
    PCGB Member
    • Total Posts : 8876
    • Joined: 2008/02/07 10:19:03
    • Status: online
    tscaptain PCGB Member
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/06 19:17:28 (permalink)
    Ha!  Where shall we do it?

    I'm speeding because I have to get there before I forget where I'm going.
    R15 Joint RO
    Gen 2 997 turbo Guards Red/black PDK
    SWMBO 997 GTS Platinum silver
    Following: @PCGB_997

    Blade_uk
    PCGB Member
    • Total Posts : 625
    • Joined: 2006/01/07 18:07:13
    • Status: offline
    Blade_uk PCGB Member
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/06 19:47:46 (permalink)


    Karl (R26 Joint RO)
    Black GT3 MK1 (11th year now & still loving it WOW!!!!!!!!)
    "Nordschleife" the only way to fly!!!
    GT Silver 997 Turbo Coupe Gen 1 with GT2 RS Wheels in Satin Black
    Riviera Blue 968 Sport. (Gone but not forgotten)
    blade7
    Guest of the Club
    • Total Posts : 1450
    • Joined: 2008/06/06 12:28:26
    • Status: offline
    blade7 Guest of the Club
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/06 20:03:35 (permalink)
    John Sims
    Having driven a 997 Turbo, in almost anyone's hands it would poo over a 400 bhp 944. And that is the rub, it will do it in anyone's hands, no matter how much of a Wheelsmith they are or aren't.
     
    Almost everything about it flatters the average driver. It has 4WD traction and the cleverest traction and dynamic controls you could imagine. Aside throwing it into a corner at a speed with which all the tyres just have to give up, it will go around that corner and accelerate out as if being chased by the Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
     
    I actually found the whole experience a little depressing. I recon I can hustle a car along a bit on a track but couldn't see me keeping up in a 944 (no matter how much power) as the 997 was so good.
     
       

     
    I had a ride in Ben Burts modded 996 turbo, and ultimate speed aside I was a little underwhelmed by the involvement. Bear in mind the 996 is at least 150kg heavier and the 997 heavier still , and once moving the AWD doesn't add a massive amount in the dry. Sure the electronics are clever, but they're not witchcraft. No axe to grind here, if I really wanted a 997 I'd buy one, I just think I'd get bored with it at anything less than really silly speeds.
    blade7
    Guest of the Club
    • Total Posts : 1450
    • Joined: 2008/06/06 12:28:26
    • Status: offline
    blade7 Guest of the Club
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/06 20:08:22 (permalink)
    tscaptain
    Ha!  Where shall we do it?


    You want to come round and fit all the bits I have to build that 420/400 944 engine? 
    tref
    PCGB Member
    • Total Posts : 1736
    • Joined: 2004/10/07 11:47:06
    • Status: offline
    tref PCGB Member
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/06 21:43:27 (permalink)
    Did you not get a go in Ben's 400+ bhp 944 as well?
    There are fast cars, there are cars that feel fast, and there are fun cars... And that could even be levelled just at 944s... There are no shortage of tales of well driven, well sorted 944 turbos keeping up with GT3s on the track... But that is mostly the best keeping up with the worst. My 944 turbo feels quicker than my S2. It isn't. Probably would be on the track, but it isn't on the road. I have recently put a 968 engine in said S2... It doesn't feel as quick as either of them... But it reduced a best time of 1 minute 9 seconds to 1 minute 7 seconds on a personal little test track. Same chassis. One day I know Karl won't be able to resist coming over and trouncing my time in his 997T or GT3, but I'm still not going to get one, because I will have much more fun just knocking off one more second in the same 944 than I will from just buying a car that is 10 seconds quicker.
    I always liked Tony's idea for making a 944 quicker - remove windscreen and tailgate to reduce frontal area by about a third! 😁
    tscaptain
    PCGB Member
    • Total Posts : 8876
    • Joined: 2008/02/07 10:19:03
    • Status: online
    tscaptain PCGB Member
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/06 23:23:35 (permalink)
    blade7
    tscaptain
    Ha!  Where shall we do it?


    You want to come round and fit all the bits I have to build that 420/400 944 engine? 


    Good heavens,  no!   I meant if you've got one we'll  see if you can keep up Actually,  bhp/ton there wouldn't be much in it but how much torque and what sort of curve do you think from a 400 BHP 944?  That's what might make all the difference not the BHP.  Those variable vane turbos are pretty awesome at chucking out 700nm from 2000 rpm upwards.

    I'm speeding because I have to get there before I forget where I'm going.
    R15 Joint RO
    Gen 2 997 turbo Guards Red/black PDK
    SWMBO 997 GTS Platinum silver
    Following: @PCGB_997

    John Sims
    PCGB Member
    • Total Posts : 7403
    • Joined: 2003/01/31 20:58:57
    • Status: offline
    John Sims PCGB Member
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/06 23:34:14 (permalink)
    blade7
    .... I just think I'd get bored with it at anything less than really silly speeds.



    Absolutely spot on. That is one of the reasons I don't like the Cayenne. It is an absolutely brilliant vehicle but way too fast for it's size.
     
    I can't comment on the 996 Turbo but the 4WD in the 997 is worth a great deal more than just getting off the line. If you have ever driven 4WD around the twisties you soon come to appreciate the shear tenacity with which it can put down power straight after the apex.  It certainly isn't all white knuckles and sphericals the size of footballs it just gets on with it.   

    John Sims


    blade7
    Guest of the Club
    • Total Posts : 1450
    • Joined: 2008/06/06 12:28:26
    • Status: offline
    blade7 Guest of the Club
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/06 23:38:55 (permalink)
    tref
    Did you not get a go in Ben's 400+ bhp 944 as well?
    There are fast cars, there are cars that feel fast, and there are fun cars... And that could even be levelled just at 944s... There are no shortage of tales of well driven, well sorted 944 turbos keeping up with GT3s on the track... But that is mostly the best keeping up with the worst. 


    Yes I drove WUF, but the turbo was too big and laggy IMO. I reckon a 16v 3.0 turbo would give a 911 turbo a hard time, but  complete S2 heads seem to have become hard to find recently.
    blade7
    Guest of the Club
    • Total Posts : 1450
    • Joined: 2008/06/06 12:28:26
    • Status: offline
    blade7 Guest of the Club
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/06 23:44:57 (permalink)
    tscaptain
     
    Good heavens,  no!   I meant if you've got one we'll  see if you can keep up Actually,  bhp/ton there wouldn't be much in it but how much torque and what sort of curve do you think from a 400 BHP 944?  


    With a 3.0, and BB turbo quite a meaty curve I'd think 
     
    blade7
    Guest of the Club
    • Total Posts : 1450
    • Joined: 2008/06/06 12:28:26
    • Status: offline
    blade7 Guest of the Club
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/07 00:00:35 (permalink)
    John Sims
     
    I can't comment on the 996 Turbo but the 4WD in the 997 is worth a great deal more than just getting off the line. If you have ever driven 4WD around the twisties you soon come to appreciate the shear tenacity with which it can put down power straight after the apex.  




    Maybe I should have left the 997 out of this thread, it seems to defy physics . Only 4WD I've driven is my A4 quattro, in the dry the only benefit is from standstill. In the wet providing power is kept on, I've driven away from much faster 2wd cars.  I don't see the 911 have the same advantage in the dry over a 944 on similar tyre widths.
    blade7
    Guest of the Club
    • Total Posts : 1450
    • Joined: 2008/06/06 12:28:26
    • Status: offline
    blade7 Guest of the Club
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/07 00:18:49 (permalink)
    My next question will be, why is the GT2 faster...
    PSH
    Guest of the Club
    • Total Posts : 2555
    • Joined: 2007/02/11 14:42:58
    • Status: offline
    PSH Guest of the Club
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/07 10:08:49 (permalink)
    An interesting question Paul
     
    I can share one pertinent experience, I have played along side a 996TT, over a fair distance too, perhaps 15 to 20 miles along the M?... I mean along my very long private road...:)  It was an interesting encounter, at the speeds we were doing (twice the speed limit) there was little in it, I had no trouble matching his acceleration as I'm sure he could match mine... mind you this was before the last £10k of mods was added, back then the power output was 368bhp, it's a lot more now. As has been mentioned, weight is important and can be a deciding factor, the '86' 951 is the lightest of all Turbo's, the 996 Turbo is 280kg heavier, that is an awful lot of extra weight. I just took a look at the performance figures for this car, I don't see anything that would frighten me, I would say that it would be a very interesting test... not one that I intend to do though, my days of silly speeds are over...honest...:) 
     
    Pete

    944 Turbo......was 368BHP/382Torque.... now more...
    DavidL
    Guest of the Club
    • Total Posts : 1729
    • Joined: 2005/12/07 12:12:17
    • Status: offline
    DavidL Guest of the Club
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/07 13:32:47 (permalink)
    I had a manthey remapped 996t alongside my 944t for a year. The 996t ran about 500bhp and went like a rocket. Granted my 944 may only reach 300bhp but the difference was an order of magnitude. It would need a really well sorted/modified 944 to approach it and as has been said you just move the fun up the speed range. I'm sure WUFs owner ran it against a 996t and reported here about it. IIRC they felt you could match the straight line speed but in the twisties the 944 fell away.
    My 996 was ok to drive but you did rather feel you needed to be in full on attack mode all the time or why have it. The interior was dull and the lack of a rear hatch proved an issue which was why it only lasted a year.
    blade7
    Guest of the Club
    • Total Posts : 1450
    • Joined: 2008/06/06 12:28:26
    • Status: offline
    blade7 Guest of the Club
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/07 13:49:10 (permalink)
    I drove WUF briefly, and I felt it really needed a better turbo and a 3.0 block. That and perhaps better engine management and suspension could have made it a more competitive car.
    PSH
    Guest of the Club
    • Total Posts : 2555
    • Joined: 2007/02/11 14:42:58
    • Status: offline
    PSH Guest of the Club
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/07 14:17:47 (permalink)
    blade7
    I drove WUF briefly, and I felt it really needed a better turbo and a 3.0 block. That and perhaps better engine management and suspension could have made it a more competitive car.


    I never drove Rick's car although drove in convoy with it a number or times, but I do recall it had some issues...not sure if he was one of the 'Lynx' guys ( he may have been Motec)which I believe was a total disaster...  I do recall the people at Silverstone working late into the night trying to get Rick's car to run better for the Dyno day the following morning. It's been 'Vitesse' all the way for me, it's been totally reliable since fitted IIRC some 15 years ago now, including it's upgrade 3 years ago to the MAP version. If you use Vitesse and have given John full details of the mods on your car I guarantee you that the car will run straight out of the box. I know some call it 'old school' but sometimes the old proven ways are the best. BTW,  Rick had the LR super 72 turbo so it certainly wasn't the turbo at fault, nor the capacity...
     
    Pete

    944 Turbo......was 368BHP/382Torque.... now more...
    944Turbo
    PCGB Member
    • Total Posts : 4953
    • Joined: 2003/02/10 12:18:41
    • Status: offline
    944Turbo PCGB Member
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/07 14:26:00 (permalink)
    I lapped Silverstone on a goldtrack evening for 5 or 6 laps with a 996T when mine was running around 350BHP  and slicks, no way I could of passed him but he wasn't getting away and at one point drifted wide putting 2 wheels off the circuit onto grass I think at Copse (or maybe entering the old pit straight)  I thought it was going to be very messy but I must conclude either he was very good or the systems were still turned on as he/the car were able to gather things up and rejoin the circuit - while I slowed massively expecting a big mess!
    Later we got caught in traffic and an EVO 8 exited the pits in between us, and he certainly wasn't in a mood to let me pass and felt he could stay with the 996t, unfortunately he couldn't and buried it in the gravel at Brooklands stopping the session.
     
    At the time mine was probably an £8k car and his around £85k so up until he ran wide I did think he might have a little more self preservation - didn't seem to slow him down much on the next lap though! He was running treaded track rubber not road tyres, but slicks offer a bit more
    Tony
     
     

    944T Coupe - personalised ;) but needing work
    944T Cab - Standard
    944Turbo
    PCGB Member
    • Total Posts : 4953
    • Joined: 2003/02/10 12:18:41
    • Status: offline
    944Turbo PCGB Member
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/07 14:39:55 (permalink)
    PSH
    blade7
    I drove WUF briefly, and I felt it really needed a better turbo and a 3.0 block. That and perhaps better engine management and suspension could have made it a more competitive car.


    I never drove Rick's car although drove in convoy with it a number or times, but I do recall it had some issues...not sure if he was one of the 'Lynx' guys ( he may have been Motec)which I believe was a total disaster...  I do recall the people at Silverstone working late into the night trying to get Rick's car to run better for the Dyno day the following morning. It's been 'Vitesse' all the way for me, it's been totally reliable since fitted IIRC some 15 years ago now, including it's upgrade 3 years ago to the MAP version. If you use Vitesse and have given John full details of the mods on your car I guarantee you that the car will run straight out of the box. I know some call it 'old school' but sometimes the old proven ways are the best. BTW,  Rick had the LR super 72 turbo so it certainly wasn't the turbo at fault, nor the capacity...
     
    Pete


    Pretty sure Rick was running Wolf 3D, I think sourced through Lindsey, as was his turbo as you said, I think they are not the best option for turbo's though you will probably disagree! I don't recall anyone running a link system in the UK
    Tony

    944T Coupe - personalised ;) but needing work
    944T Cab - Standard
    PSH
    Guest of the Club
    • Total Posts : 2555
    • Joined: 2007/02/11 14:42:58
    • Status: offline
    PSH Guest of the Club
    Re: 400+ BHP 944 turbo V standard 996/7 turbo? 2018/12/07 14:48:24 (permalink)
    944Turbo
     
    Pretty sure Rick was running Wolf 3D, I think sourced through Lindsey, as was his turbo as you said, I think they are not the best option for turbo's though you will probably disagree! I don't recall anyone running a link system in the UK
    Tony




     
    Hi Tony
     
    I'm sure that some did, think it may have been a group buy...my mind isn't the best these days but I'm sure that there was lot's of talk trying to get this system to work, IIRC even Wayne had problems with it...John, didn't you have 'link'?  

    944 Turbo......was 368BHP/382Torque.... now more...
    Page: 123 > Showing page 1 of 3
    Jump to:

    Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members

    Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions

    Disclaimer

    The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions.

    Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible.

    When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide.

    Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned.

    Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times.

    © 2018 APG vNext Commercial Version 4.6
    Porsche
    Lockton
    Silverstone Auctions
    Pirelli
    Pirelli
    Oracle Finance
    Archant Dialogue
    HFMC Wealth

    Cornbury House
    Cotswold Business Village
    London Road
    Moreton-in-Marsh
    Gloucestershire  GL56 0JQ

    Call us: 01608 652 911