Is it me or are there a lot of 991.1 and 991.2 GT3’s For Sale

[Porker911gts]

Hi All

having not been able to secure either a GT3 991.2 or Touring or R, despite numerous attempts and numerous previous Porsche’s I notice there seem a lot of available cars at the Porsche Dealers, currently over 50 GT3’s and they don’t seem to be moving very much.

ive also noticed the prices of those cars softening both on Pistonheads and through the Porsche network. I wonder if Porsche dealers are getting a little nervous they are holding a lot of cars that are priced at stupid premiums and Porsche buyers are not willing to fund OPC or speculators profit and getting fed up with the allocation system adopted by Porsche.

A material number of cars seem to have nominal mileage’s suggesting agreements between dealers and speculators on splitting the profits, assuming they sell the cars, something hung that Porsche cannot ignore given the reputational risk to this historic brand.

For me, I use my 991 GTS as it was designed taking it in track, Europe’s Tours etc and having owned it for a coup,e of years now looking to replace during the coming months. I’ve considered leaving Porsche for the likes of Mclaren, 570 GT, but love Porsche and (stupidly) loyal to the Brand and more importantly the 911.

heres hoping these inflated 991.2 GT3 prices deflate, so loyal owners can buy these cars and use them as Ferry Porsche intended.

Rant over

 

[RussellFunnell]

IMO for short run cars Porsche should make you sign a contract that you must own the car for 2 years

 

[PJ63]

Completely agree. I was even more frustrated by this when on the Porsche stand at the FOS they had my perfectly spec'd GT3 all priced up at £128,000, which if that was for real & I could of bought it, I would have given them a deposit there & then. Anyway here's hoping the prices get back to sensible list prices so the real loyal Porsche fans can buy the cars they love.

 

[keithn]

I have noticed the same. Perhaps/hopefully a bubble is starting to deflate - time will tell. I am glad you shared your "rant" - the more genuine Porsche owners that speak up about the blatant collusion between the network and speculators the better. Does any one know if there is similar flipping hype in the US or German markets or is it just a UK problem? On the upside, if you are replacing in the coming months, there might be some deals to be had as the 991 bows out.

 

[bobfair]

This is a subject that upsets me a lot as I very much enjoyed my 997 and 991 GT3's. Porsche GB has made a complete mess of the supply and allocation of these wonderful cars and have upset many loyal customers including myself which is one of the reasons why I am currently a McLaren 720 owner. The list of cars you could not buy is now a very long one, GT4, 911R, GT3, GT3RS, GT2RS etc etc. Why does Porsche need so many low volume models? They have consistently refused to address the problem and have simply relied on the OPC's to allocate the cars . This to me is like hiring a batch of virgins to run your blood banks and then hiring Dracula to be the CEO whilst hoping for high standards of conduct. Just by way of example my local OPC has a 2018 GT3 for sale with just 400 miles on the clock for £204k despite the fact they assure me they only sell these cars to loyal customers who want to use them.

The problem started with Andreas Preuninger and his team who developed some fabulous cars that appealed to a much wider audience and not just hard core trackies. Improvements in suspension, stability controls and a first rate PDK gearbox meant the cars had a much wider "band width" and could be enjoyed by many and so became much more desirable. In earlier years GT cars used to be much harder to sell. Despite the obvious increase in demand Porsche refused to materially increase the allocation to the UK citing that "production is limited" which of course is complete nonsense as Porsche has geared up to sell over 250,000 cars pa and the supply situation of GT cars is much better in left hand drive markets. I really don't understand what Porsche is doing and can only conclude that they don't really care and are happy for the market to sort itself out. Increasing sales and profitability has been easy for them in recent years with markets such as China providing massive growth. Porsche sales are dominated by Macans and Cayennes so I assume they only make a few sporty cars and do a bit of racing to help keep the sporty image and justify their premium pricing of their main stream vehicles.

Markets tend to correct themselves over time and in my opinion there is a serious price correction on the way despite the GT cars being very desirable. There are around 50 GT3's and 20 GT3 RS for sale in the OPC network and (many more outside) almost all of which are priced over original list which is crazy in my humble view. Anyone buying one of these cars over list , and using it, should expect to take a serious hit when they sell. I am sure there are some who are prepared for that just so as they can enjoy these fabulous cars but I doubt there enough to support the bubble given that companies such as McLaren provide some great alternatives

As we march towards turbo powered GT cars, hybrids and electrification I wonder what happens next?

 

[Geoff_Fields]

My local OPC called to offer me a "new" GT3 with only 67 miles on the clock, oh yes and massive overs. Explained that it wasn't their car but a customers on SOR. Went on to say that the seller was very keen to move on because...wait for it....He's now got a a new GT3RS!!!!!! The rest of the conversation didn't go well for the sales person as I went on an extended rant about being a loyal customer for 28 years, letter of intent offered donkey's years ago etc.etc.[][][]

 

[bobfair]

Geoff I hope you pointed out that there are 50 GT 3's in the network to chose from. At some time they will realise the party is over

 

[RussellFunnell]

The party will only be over when people stop buying them at the overs price, BUT many people can't help themselves!
I wouldn't buy one myself, but if I did the lottery and won it (note to myself: buy a bl00dy ticket), I would and I wouldn't care about the impending losses if I had that much money to throw around, I would just enjoy the car until the next one.

 

[Porker911gts]

Thanks for the various posts guys, seems we have a consensus view.

Given the feedback from so many Porsche enthusiasts, and noting the status and influence of Porsche Club Great Britain i wonder if this is something that could be taken forward with Porsche GB or even better Porsche AG on our behalf.

 

[DrSimon]

This is something that saddens me enormously. I'm relatively new to Porsche ownership but was thinking of taking the plunge in the next year or two and buying a GT3. I will be buying it for purely driving purposes and have zero interest in investment reasons. I was astonished at talk on Pistonheads yesterday when there were comments about a GT3 RS up for auction and the mileage was a 'massive' 17k. It was as if it had gone round the planet twice the way the comments unfolded. Maybe I'm being completely naive but I thinks it's terribly sad the way Porsche UK have handled the flipping problems over the last few years. I'm not surprised that there's some sort of price correction going on right now.

 

[RussellFunnell]

Having talked to Chris I will take my comments about PCGB back.
Porsche UK need to start listening and do something!

Well that could be the end of my chances of a GT Porsche in the future!
Oh well, at least there are other nice brands to jump to - life's too short not to try them.

 

[mphillips]

I feel so much better that it's not just me who finds the GT* space silly then. I've been a Porsche owner for just the last year – I was lucky to be able to buy a 911 C2S new. When the GT3 Touring pack was announced I would've swapped my then less than a year old, very well spec'd, Carrera for one. But getting a build slot from my dealer was impossible. And there's no way I'm paying 180k for a 130k car that's six months old, that's just daft.

@bobfair how have you found the McLaren experience? I contemplated a 570 before buying the 911. It looks like you've done the Ice Driving experience too – I went in January this year. Most fun I've had behind the wheel of a car, ever, I think

 

[ChrisSeaward]

[blockquote]Don't make me laugh, some of the power brokers of the PCGB are allegedly benefitting from their positions and getting these cars, so I hear on the grapevine!

[/blockquote]Hi Russell,

That's a sweeping claim which I don't recognise as being correct but one we take very seriously indeed. I'd like to speak with you to understand where that comment has come from so, If I may, I'll give you a call at a convenient time so we can talk more.

Look forward to speaking soon.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[RussellFunnell]

I'll get me coat

 

[garyw]

570 can be picked new with 30k discounts.
Its quite easy to see how that’s effecting residuals and prices.
I very much enjoyed the 570GT but for me now too much of a risk brand new.
used they can be found as a bargain, which is the only way I’d look at one.

Porsche really are now only doing what the other brands are doing - and like every ones seems to agree here, it’s not right and long term destroys loyalty

 

[Porker911gts]

Chris, can you also respond on the point raised about PCGB representing these views to Porsche GB and Porsche AG please this is clearly causing huge frustration for Porsche enthusiasts and owners alike.

Ive Contacted Porsche GB and got a standard response of that it’s delegated to the dealers. I’ve raised when at the Porsche factory in Stuttgart and told to speak to Porsche GB.

Gareth

 

[ChrisSeaward]

Hi Gareth,

Sure, no problem.

We get lots of calls at the Clubhouse relating to this very issue so the team are acutely aware of the frustration which exists. The Club talks to Porsche Cars GB regularly and we do raise the issue of allocation with them because, ultimately, the Club exists to serve its members and without them there is no Porsche Club. We therefore have an obligation to pass member views back to Porsche and we do that as much as we can.

In my second year working with the Club myself and Peter Bull interviewed Chris Craft (MD at the time) about the supply issues with GT4 and his response was published in Porsche Post.

Our contacts in marketing at Porsche Cars GB are aware of the frustration from members and our feedback is heard. That's all we can do and after the feedback is given we just have to hope that decision makers consider the insight we offer. There is, as this thread clearly demonstrates, a continuing frustration and the Club has to do what it can to act upon that.

I recognise the above is all a little vague and might not provide the answers you were hoping for. However, I'm keen to dispel any notion that the Club doesn't care, we absolutely do and while we haven't yet made any tangible progress which benefits members, that isn't for lack of trying and we will continue to do just that.

The Club's vibrancy is down to the enthusiasm of its members and anything which dampens that is taken seriously by the Clubhouse team and the Board of Directors.

Feel free to give me a call if you want to talk more.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Tony Warr]

Thank you for the response Chris. However other members have raised valid points so I just want to add my support for this issue.

 

[Porker911gts]

Chris, I really appreciate you taking the time respond and I can only hope that either the market prices fall to more in line with the Recomended Retail Price or Porsche takes note and resolves the allocation process to a more centralised and transparent approach.

thanks again

Gareth

 

[geoff lane]

Chris, can you also respond on the point raised about PCGB representing these views to Porsche GB and Porsche AG please this is clearly causing huge frustration for Porsche enthusiasts and owners alike.

Ive Contacted Porsche GB and got a standard response of that it’s delegated to the dealers. I’ve raised when at the Porsche factory in Stuttgart and told to speak to Porsche GB.

Gareth

I also have heard that GT car allocation is down to the OPC's and if you put in a LOT with your salesman and don't get an allocation then the standard salesman answer is that allocations are down to the Dealer Principal which again I think is true due to the limited allocations. Dealer Principals have an impossible task where limited volume GT cars are concerned, they have very good customers who buy a number of cars per year and I'm told this can be up to 50 cars. No business can afford to loose this type of customer so from a business point of view if a good customer (buying 10 to 50 cars per year) wants a GT car he will go to the top of the list, this will then limit the amount of cars available to enthusiasts, the same business principle then follows and enthusiasts who purchase 3 or 4 cars per year or have rare interesting and therefore valuable cars they are prepared to trade in come next, these customers far exceed the OPC's allocation, leaving the enthusiast who buys a car every 4 years uses it, tracks it and enjoys the brand well down the list. A dealer principal wants to keep all his customers and understands the frustration from a real enthusiast but to an extent his hands are tied as he is running a business. It is also good business from a DP's point of view if a really good customer who always wants the next new toy, for example gets a GT3 and trades it in for a GT3RS etc, if the GT3 goes back to the OPC at list or shared profit and the OPC then makes a handsome overs profit when and if sold. If a really good customer sells his GT car via a specialist JZM or similar for overs and he buys say 15 cars a year will the DP still sell him another GT car of course he will as its a business. This will only change when the bubble bursts and real enthusiasts have all got GT cars or finally refuse to pay overs. At that point the good customers will not want the cars and the market will correct itself, GT cars will depreciate from the day they leave the showroom and maybe OPC's will again struggle to sell the allocation as happened 5 or 6 years ago.
Another frustrated GT car enthusiast who has paid overs twice, lost money and won't do it again.